I can get behind Universal Health care?

[Navarp]

Ok, now bear with me because I know that this is kind of an odd statement coming from me(for those that know me.) Also I know that this is #1 a Navar Politics thread and #2 TLDR so if this isn't that interesting to you then just move along, nothing to see here. I was surprised that I reached this conclusion myself even. I was listening to the radio at lunch today, February 23, 2009, and I heard something that made a lot of sense to me though. Then I started thinking and I think that if Universal Health care is implemented correctly I can indeed get behind it. So the radio host said that we as educated people who have decent jobs will be providing the means so that the “poor unwashed masses” can obtain a service. Well his point was that it was totally a “one way street” as in they are not responsible for contributing anything back to us.

So (as in usual in my head) a crazy idea started. “What if we did require things of them?”

Now I don’t mean they have to go out and get jobs or anything crazy, just lifestyle choices. These are decisions that will improve their lives even. Also in my mind those of us who pay for Health Care now could continue to pay for our Health Care, so these requirements wouldn’t apply to us. This would be my list of criteria for people who chose to be on universal health care. Some of the things on this list are controversial, and all would not be required, but imagine a society where to gain access to a great program like Free Health Care would uphold all of these tenets.

#1 National ID Program. Everyone who signs up for the program has all their information entered into a Governmental Database. This would take a few years to implement, but every law enforcement and intelligence agency would have full access to said rolls. So if someone jumps bail, or has an outstanding warrant for their arrest in another state then as soon as they access the health care system they are flagged and can be brought to justice. This would also create jobs as it would have to be built and maintained. Nice government jobs for educated people to boot.

#2 No Drugs. This includes alcohol, tobacco, pretty much anything legal or illegal that is a drug, and can be tested for. If they test positive for any of said drugs then they can obtain a waiver from a Doctor, or they lose access to the free health care. (Access can be returned by passing a drug test (and loss of access could be delayed if the second test is done within 16 business hours of receiving the results of the first test.))

#3 No Felonies. I don’t mean that we don’t put felons into the system to begin with, BUT I do mean that if you obtain a felony conviction while on the program you lose access to the free health care. (Access could be returned after some waiting period had passed (3-5 years.))

#4 No fertility treatments. I would almost think that this would go without saying, but if you can not afford heath insurance then you shouldn’t be having medical procedures to increase your family’s financial bourdons.

#5 Drug Studies. This is a HUGE tenet that would VASTLY improve the way we conduct drug studies. As stated before the government would maintain a database on all of the members of the Universal Health Care program. Well pharmaceutical companies could acquire a liaison of sorts (job creation) to deal with this new branch of government. Well said liaison could go to their government counterpart and request 1000 people or so at random to take part in a drug study. All of the variables could be determined by the pharmaceutical companies. So as an example let’s take Migraine Headaches. Let’s say that Pfizer wanted to try out a new medication to prevent migraines. Well their liaison would contact the government and obtain 1,000 patients for their study who are currently suffering from migraines who are subscribed to the Universal Health Care program. Those people are contracted by their Doctors and they can choose to remain in the Universal Health Care program and take part in a research trail for this new medication, OR they can choose to lose access to the program. (Access could be returned after some waiting period had passed (3-5 years.))

#6 No Care for those not in the program. This would have to be phased in, but after the program had been running for a bit we eliminate emergency care for those who don’t have health coverage. The effect of this would mean that if a hard working family struggling to get by needs emergency care for one of their children who develops some life threatening bacterial infection then it is available, but if a 6 time arrested crack dealer wants to have access to even emergency health care he will have to pay for it out of his own pocket.

That is all I can think of off the top of my head, but how about it. What are general thoughts on the viability of a program like this? I think it would have the net effect of improving society and giving people a reason to work harder to obtain a better place in life where they could gain access to some of these options.

A lot of these are options that I have to put up with now. I can’t do illegal drugs and keep access to my Health care for example, I also can’t have any felonies. Because of the nature of my job I am tracked by no less than 5 Government agencies. Also you know I go to work and pay for my health care, so I don’t think that anything on this list is that big of a deal for people who are getting their health care FOR FREE. Anyway what do you think?

[Sully]

Drug studies-a lot of them require you to be under observation for a week or more at a time. It's rarely 'one doctor appointment every two weeks'. If you make it where it's like national guard/reserves/deployment and your workplace is required to reserve your job, sure. Otherwise, hell no.

[Sprint]

LOL @ OP

NO ALCOHOL OR TOBACCO BUT EAT ALL THE BACON CHEESEBURGERS YOU WANT

[Mike Honcho]

So if a poor person smokes a cigarette and later has a heart attack, he can be left in the street to die?

[Human]

Universal health care isn't universal if everyone can't have it.

[Gliss]

I mean there's some stuff I want to type, but really you're just a pretty awful person.

[Whiplash D. Wolfwood]

This is a fantastic plan for the far right, ultra conservative, super straight edge, gigantic family having nutbars. That is, the people who keep arguing against UHC in the first place. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[Navarp]

Originally Posted by Sprint

LOL @ OP

NO ALCOHOL OR TOBACCO BUT EAT ALL THE BACON CHEESEBURGERS YOU WANT

I did think about Body Mass Index somewhere in there, but I wasn't sure how to implement it. I LIKE the idea of it, but I would have to do more research on the genetic condition of obesity and the like. THIS is exactly the kind of feedback I wasn’t expecting though.

[Mike Honcho]

Basically, among other things, this system involves holding healthcare for the poor hostage contingent on them allowing themselves to be used as medical experiments for corporations.

[Navarp]

Originally Posted by apollonike

Drug studies-a lot of them require you to be under observation for a week or more at a time. It's rarely 'one doctor appointment every two weeks'. If you make it where it's like national guard/reserves/deployment and your workplace is required to reserve your job, sure. Otherwise, hell no.

Right, this would have to be in the database, but I think it could be made to work.

[Pickled Kitten]

god those are horrible fucking ideas.

[Navarp]

Originally Posted by Mike Honcho

So if a poor person smokes a cigarette and later has a heart attack, he can be left in the street to die?

Well I would think that someone would know CPR nearby, BUT if they chose to opt out of the System, THEN that would be their choice. I mean people choose to not have medical treatments ALL THE TIME for various reasons. "Because I want to be able to smoke" seems just as good a reason as any other.

[Viper1969]

Yeah, this is all just stupid. I want to call out specific parts, but it's just too monolithicly dumb to even start.

Edit: Ugh, I can't help myself. Fuck your national ID system, for one. And hey, let's make it so that people who make (admittedly sometimes very serious) mistakes in their lives don't get healthcare. Then, since felony convictions make it hard to get a job, when medical bills hit, they're put under a huge financial obligation. I wonder what possible way they might take in order to deal with that. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Edit2: How the fuck did I miss your monstrous drug studies idea? You're fucked up, dude.

[Mongoose]

Navarp, every single one of your ideas could be replaced with the words "Fuck poor people" and there would be no difference in the content.

[Navarp]

Originally Posted by Pickled Kitten

god those are horrible [edit] ideas.

Really? Drug testing people to make sure they are taking care of their bodies that we are paying for is a horrible idea?

[Peregrine]

Making it so that this is the only possible way to get healthcare, of any sort, and then adding on all these conditions is just plain wrong. If you're going to forcibly remove someone's healthcare because of legal drug use, you might as well just make those drugs illegal in the first place.

[Whiplash D. Wolfwood]

This really is a great way to turn an inevitable change that conservatives HATE into something that conservatives would LOVE, though. Hats off to you on that front.

[Mike Honcho]

Originally Posted by Navarp

Well I would think that someone would know CPR nearby, BUT if they chose to opt out of the System, THEN that would be their choice. I mean people choose to not have medical treatments ALL THE TIME for various reasons. "Because I want to be able to smoke" seems just as good a reason as any other.

That's terrible and immoral. Basically saying "You're poor, you have to do whatever I say or die! Ha! Want a beer? TOO BAD SIR POORS A LOT" It doesn't matter if it's their "choice" to opt out of this absurd system, it's insane and wrong.

[Gliss]

Originally Posted by Navarp

Really? Drug testing people to make sure they are taking care of their bodies that we are paying for is a horrible idea?

To harp on a point, this literally forces sick people to be guinea pigs for corporations, or die.

[Mongoose]

Navarp have you ever, for a second, not thought that poor people are worthless?

[pillows de radio]

How about we don't use the poor for drug testing? How about we just give them medical care? What's wrong with no strings attached medical care? Do you think Jesus made people try experimental drugs before he healed them? What about the Hippocratic Oath?

[Navarp]

Originally Posted by Human

Universal health care isn't universal if everyone can't have it.

Every CAN have it. They can choose to opt out of it. Their choices are the ones that this decision would be based on.

[Mike Honcho]

you can either choose to do this work, or i shoot you in the face

it's your choice

[pillows de radio]

Originally Posted by Navarp

Every CAN have it. They can choose to opt out of it. Their choices are the ones that this decision would be based on.

You're so dumb.

[Mike Honcho]

Originally Posted by Mike Honcho

you can either choose to do this work, or i shoot you in the face

it's your choice

I call it the Universal Allowed-To-Live System.