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Old 2012-03-17, 12:01 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by KikassAssassin View Post

Someone pointed out that in order to get the best ending in Mass Effect 3, you actually have to do zero side quests, and collect as few war assets as you possibly can, because at least in that scenario, most of the various races' fleets will be at their homeworlds when the Mass Relays are destroyed.
But...war is hell! There was no other possible way to make this point!
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:04 PM   #752
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Also, fun fact: If you pick the "destroy" ending and didn't save the Geth, the ghost boy tells you it will destroy the Reapers, "and most technology."

Congrats, you've just wiped out the entire fleet orbiting Earth (and, hell, every other spacefaring vessel and space station in the galaxy), and committed genocide against the Quarians.
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:07 PM   #753
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Tangent: Someone needs to make a mod that removes those goddamned dream sequences with the kid. That was so annoying.
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:13 PM   #754
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Tangent: Someone needs to make a mod that removes those goddamned dream sequences with the kid. That was so annoying.
At least you couldn't die (Max Payne 2 )
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:26 PM   #755
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Also if we've got a stick up our ass about how sacred authorial intent is in video game endings can I at least get some DLC that implements all the parts of this ending they cut?

Like can I at least have the shit with Joker make sense? I mean this is me just straight up saying I hate the indoctrination theory but I would like an ending that doesn't make me fill in so many blanks that "it was all a hallucination" actually makes more sense than taking the information I'm presented at face value.

Show Joker picking up my squad mates. Give him some reason to be trying to outrun the explosion. Explain why Anderson got to the Citadel before me. If you're going to hand me a shitty ending that undermines everything I fought for for 3 games at least bother to cross some t's and dot some goddamn i's.
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:41 PM   #756
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I know you guys that are discussing Star Wars are doing it about Lucas' latest "improvements", but let's think back to use Star Wars as a comparison, then let's go back to 1980-something when Revenge of the Jedi comes out. Luke dies at the hands of the emperor, but he wakes up, ascends to death star heaven, and meets midichlorian-boy who tells him he invented the force and now he can destroy everyone with midichlorians by pushing a button and Whiny Luke does not say a word and just goes and pressed a button, then Han Solo is on a jungle planet with Leia (wait, Leia would not be there, she's got midichlorians), then fade to credits... Think of how confused and pissed off everyone would be. People would have discussed why the movie makers bothered to have Luke assemble the rebels, better his skills as a jedi, if the end result was midichlorian-boy. This is how retarded the Mass Effect ending is and the amount of hate people have for this ending. People would have demanded for a revised ending for sure.
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Old 2012-03-17, 12:49 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KikassAssassin View Post
Also, fun fact: If you pick the "destroy" ending and didn't save the Geth, the ghost boy tells you it will destroy the Reapers, "and most technology."

Congrats, you've just wiped out the entire fleet orbiting Earth (and, hell, every other spacefaring vessel and space station in the galaxy), and committed genocide against the Quarians.
I mentioned the technology thing earlier, but yes, destroying all tech basically murders everyone. Even people on planets will have a hard time recovering from the battle scared planet if they have no tech to help them farm, etc. I mean some colonies weren't habitable, so they are all dead. Some planets grew to a size that required food, etc from farm worlds, out of the question now. Not to mention that some tech doesn't just go out with a little static pop. There could be meltdowns, waste, etc that is impossible to stop or clean up if all tech just suddenly stopped.

So all the different species will likely have some survivors, but civilization as a whole is destroyed.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:16 PM   #758
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RockPaperShotgun did an interesting and even-handed take on the ending. Again, I'm not really on board with the authorial intent defense on not changing the ending but I do think it would probably be a bad move on Bioware's part to straight up rewrite the ending.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:37 PM   #759
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I just cancelled my SW:TOR subscription and in the "tell us why" section wrote a polite letter explaining that I'm voting with my dollars not to support Bioware or EA due to the crappy Mass Effect 3 endings.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:39 PM   #760
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Quote:
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They're not gonna do anything like that, single player DLC will be focusing on other fronts before/during the war and probably not even feature Shepard.

I will bet you a shiny quarter.

I bet they defend the shitty ending until their dying breath.
They've already outright said there will be more DLC featuring Shepard, and they have said in so many words they they are going to make something for the ending as well, and are actively taking fan feedback about what they should include/change. I'll take this bet.
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How can anyone take a rewritten ending as a real ending? The authors have written an ending already to their story. The ending is there, it exists. Rewriting that because of negative response cheapens the whole thing. A new ending would feel like fanfic to me, not matter how much I might want another option.
That's silly. Do you not consider Lair of the Shadow Broker canon for the same reason?

There is a precedent for this sort of thing, i.e. a Director's Cut, re-cut, or outright retcon of an ending. In a videogame that has (or should have had) multiple varied endings anyway, it really doesn't bother me at all.

edit: Especially if they did it in a way so that you could play a pre-endgame DLC mission that would then unlock alternate ending options. So it's less of a retcon, and more of simply adding more choices to the ending.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:42 PM   #761
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You can argue authorial intent all day if you want. It's complicated by Mass Effect being a much more collaborative endeavor. Whose intent was the ending? The team of writers? The directors? How much of a hand did the marketing department have in it? Or the art department? Or the budget department?

What will really determine whether or not the ending is changed is the numbers.

Mass Effect 3 was not the end of the universe. This was a huge franchise and they obvious had plans and not just DLC plans.

Rumors of a multiplayer spinoff that the multiplayer in ME3 was a prototype for have been bouncing around. A Mass Effect movie is in production. Bioware has no plans to let this IP die.

But if their fanbase abandons the franchise frustrated due to the ending, those endeavors might not be very successful. Suddenly the cash cow has dried up.

This argument won't be decided by artistic merit. It will be decided by marketers and producers. For good or for bad.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:43 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Sprint View Post
I just cancelled my SW:TOR subscription and in the "tell us why" section wrote a polite letter explaining that I'm voting with my dollars not to support Bioware or EA due to the crappy Mass Effect 3 endings.
Looks like someone won't get to play the Kai Leng spin-off third-person action game.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:49 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by build me a star View Post
They've already outright said there will be more DLC featuring Shepard, and they have said in so many words they they are going to make something for the ending as well, and are actively taking fan feedback about what they should include/change. I'll take this bet.
AFAIK the (single player) DLC is supposed to focus on other theaters of the Reaper War and won't take place after the events of London/Earth.

Re: talk of ending, I'd bet on more of a "this is what this companion NPC ends up doing" rather than a full reboot.

I don't think they're going to retrench, there's just too much at stake and the economics probably aren't there. Most players don't even download any DLC.

IMO the game was rushed out the door (it was supposed to be a holidays 2011 release) and they didn't spend enough time on or focus group the ending, and I don't particularly feel the need to reward them for it. There's tons of good games out there that don't make me feel like shit after I finish them. I'll be OK without Bioware.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:52 PM   #764
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Yup. I mean why bother doing sidequests in ME1 or 2 now?
Why bother playing ME1 or 2? Can't you do sidequests just for the sake of enjoying them, and not avoid them because the ending to the next game is shitty?
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:52 PM   #765
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By the way, if Synthesis is a valid solution for the big synthetics/organics-problem, why did the Catalyst wait for 37 million years? Why kill hundreds of quadrillions of beings when you just could space magic everything?
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:55 PM   #766
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You know I actively avoid disagreeing with you usually to avoid this kind of stuff? You might have some great points underneath this sentence, but I don't want to read any of it.
Hey Alex, I got a little heated and was more than abrasive. I thought about it over lunch and my other affairs today and that wasn't cool. I'm sorry.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:55 PM   #767
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I don't think they're going to retrench, there's just too much at stake and the economics probably aren't there. Most players don't even download any DLC.
Gamestop reported 40% of players who bought ME3 also picked up the From Ashes DLC pack at the store.
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Old 2012-03-17, 1:57 PM   #768
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Why bother playing ME1 or 2? Can't you do sidequests just for the sake of enjoying them, and not avoid them because the ending to the next game is shitty?
The ending to ME3 is so bad it made me stop wanting to play the games entirely. I'll probably get back to the MP at some point but I can't see myself ever giving a shit about SP ever again knowing how it turns out.

Quote:
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By the way, if Synthesis is a valid solution for the big synthetics/organics-problem, why did the Catalyst wait for 37 million years? Why kill hundreds of quadrillions of beings when you just could space magic everything?
Because shitty writing and not thinking things through. I like how energy pulses powerful enough to destroy planetoid sized objects built to be indestructible can safely infuse organics with cool circuitry tattoos.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:05 PM   #769
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By the way, if Synthesis is a valid solution for the big synthetics/organics-problem, why did the Catalyst wait for 37 million years? Why kill hundreds of quadrillions of beings when you just could space magic everything?
Yeah, the Synthesis choice stuck in my craw a bit too. I'd like to ask the Catalyst to elaborate a little on the pure logistics of this. It sounded weird as shit to me. I shyed away from that one since I figured it would mean something like a hard reset for Life and that all present organics would be wiped out. I mean, how do you survive having your DNA switched out. It just sounded weird.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:08 PM   #770
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In theory Shepard somehow unlocked Synthesis? I guess? It's not clear. Maybe some modification one of the races made to the Crucible did it.

Regardless, I refuse to take it. That's basically the Saren way of capitulating to the Reapers in my mind, especially because it leaves behind no guarantee that they will permanently break off their attacks and leave the rest of the galaxy in peace.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:09 PM   #771
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Again, I successfully avoided major spoilers for all of my playthrough. I knew the ending was "harsh" and that a lot of people didn't like it, but that was all I had to go on.

I was expecting:

1) Beloved characters to get indoctrinated
2) Having to deal with characters you knew and liked that got Husked
3) Having to deal with civilians, and not being able to save them all

etc.

I was expecting the kind of mortal horror and dread that stuff like A Song of Ice and Fire can inspire on its best pages etc.

Not just plain old out and out laziness and shittiness.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:17 PM   #772
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By the way, if Synthesis is a valid solution for the big synthetics/organics-problem, why did the Catalyst wait for 37 million years? Why kill hundreds of quadrillions of beings when you just could space magic everything?
He does say why: because they never had the Crucible until now.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:20 PM   #773
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Yeah, same. That would have been great.
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:26 PM   #774
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He does say why: because they never had the Crucible until now.
The whole "blah blah blah SYNTHETICS" shit is garbage anyway. To wit:
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Old 2012-03-17, 2:30 PM   #775
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The ending to ME3 is so bad it made me stop wanting to play the games entirely. I'll probably get back to the MP at some point but I can't see myself ever giving a shit about SP ever again knowing how it turns out.
This is how I felt. I can't even be bothered on running through my planned Pure Renegade run.
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