Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion (Massive UNMARKED Spoilers)

[UngorEatStefan]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

I've only ever seen the Director's Cut.

Good news, it was fanfic.

[Sprint]

And Jesus Christ, the fucking old man and kid at the end what the fuck was that shit. Are they actually trying to fucking use the Princess Bride shit on this shit.

[UngorEatStefan]

I kind of liked the old man and the little girl, I just didn't like how it conveyed that the entire galaxy was ruined and they didn't know that all the other stars had worlds, species, cultures, etc.

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by UngorEatStefan

Good news, it was fanfic.

It was an unpopular ending that the creator of the film was pressured to remove because the studio didn't want to make people unhappy.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I'll always prefer director's cuts because it's supposed to represent what the person who made the damn thing actually wanted, without outside pressure or restrictions. If Bioware releases a statement that they GENUINELY did not want to do the endings they did and will do a director's cut because of it, that's one thing. If they change it because they're caving to outside pressure and they don't want to lose money on future games, that's fucked up.

[Darius Sontag]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

It was an unpopular ending that the creator of the film was pressured to remove because the studio didn't want to make people unhappy.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

In a sense yes. Lots of reviews of Blade Runner amounted too "this movie was fantastic up till the last minute, then WTF".

The only other major change the director cut made was removing all of Harrison Ford's shitty shitty narrations. (Yes the original Blade Runner had Harrison Ford narrate everything like it was an old detective movie... a bad one)

[Killjoy]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Well, they did change lead writers after ME2. Drew M left to do the writing for SW:TOR and then quit Bioware.

So going "AUTHORIAL INTENT" is kind of hogwash to me considering this is some new guy.

That said, I think the people in Bioware are feeling so bloated from success they are incapable of admitting they did something shitty.

I consider this irrelevant anyway since Drew Karpyshyn is a terrible writer.

[UngorEatStefan]

Ok so let's not use Blade Runner, let's use a different thing.

Whiplash, how do you feel about new editions of Star Wars?

I mean this is a dumb debate and I am just being pedantic with a friend - but I really don't understand why it would be a bad thing or cheapen the process for Bioware to say hey, we screwed up, we're going to try and fix it.

[Bylak]

Originally Posted by Sprint

What I was expecting:

Something like ME2, where instead of telling squadmates to do stuff that they may or may not die doing, you have assets. Like Uh, we gots to cross this no-man's zone! It's being strafed by Reaper fighters! Well, we can have the Geth or Quarians provide air support! They'll get decimated but we'll get across. Oh shit, you used those assets before. Welp, looks like you got to use some of your squaddies to man an ack-ack battery. They'll die but THE GREATER GOOD.

That's how you do a story with lots of loss but still the potential to get out of there. And if you don't have lots of allies and squaddies by the end, if you get to the end but you are alone, you have a set piece where Shepard barrels through and commits suicide to stop the Reapers. You don't make it every possibility.

"Make friends with Nazi Space Baby and then commit suicide" is not a good story.

ARGH SO MUCH HATE

Dang Sprint, that would have been a friggin' awesome ending.

[UngorEatStefan]

Yeah, that is a good point you raise Sprint. I am really surprised that I was unable to allocate how the different war assets would be used.

[Darius Sontag]

Actually this Forbes article makes an excellent point about what we are discussing right now.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthi...r-video-games/

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by UngorEatStefan

Ok so let's not use Blade Runner, let's use a different thing.

Whiplash, how do you feel about new editions of Star Wars?

I mean this is a dumb debate and I am just being pedantic with a friend - but I really don't understand why it would be a bad thing or cheapen the process for Bioware to say hey, we screwed up, we're going to try and fix it.

Ugh I knew you'd bring up Star Wars. I think everyone can agree though that Star Wars and George Lucas are an incredibly unique example, and it's difficult to discuss because nobody will ever really know what George Lucas intended. He could be full of shit, or he could have genuinely wanted all the shit he's added over the years. Some things seem like additions that genuinely could not have been made at the time, other things seem like recent waffling. I'm not sure we'll ever really know.

And I don't like the idea that if the way you decided to end something gets a negative reaction, even if that's really how you wanted the thing to end, that means that you screwed up.

This is not the first product to have an upsetting ending, but from the fan reaction you'd think it was. Fan reaction is also making it seem like it's totally a reasonable and easy thing to just completely rewrite the end of the story. How many times has that ever been done?

If, genuinely, the other planned endings were what was really supposed to happen, and they genuinely were rushed, and ran out of time, and had to use these instead, that's one thing. If someone from Bioware comes out in some capacity and says, yup, EA rushed us, we had to compromise, then that is incredibly shitty. If they change the ending from what they actually wanted because they don't want to lose future DLC money, I'd feel weird about it.

It's just a way that I'd feel personally.

[Yunara]

I can easily forsee them, instead of just making an Ending DLC and marketing it as such, adding in a whole new mission before the point of no return, which if you complete, allows you to pick a new option for an ending. So while it really would be an ending DLC, they could market it as a new mission and not focus on how bad they fucked up.

On a different front, I missed the lack of loyalty missions. Granted it would make no sense to go tie up loose ends for your crew in the middle of the end of the galaxy, but some characters sort of had loyalty missions, like Tali or Edi when they mention they have to go for this mission. But others hint at missions that would have made sense but just weren't even in the game. For example, Kaidan talks a lot about his biotic squad. I could easily have seen a mission to go rescue his special ops team and then they become a war asset.

[frogurt]

Originally Posted by Sprint

What I was expecting:

You nailed it. This is how the final mission should have played out. Doesn't have to be fancy, just a permutation of the ME2 ending asset allocation choices would have worked wonderfully.

[UngorEatStefan]

Sorry for bringing up the thing that was super pertinent to my point and calls into question your statements about authorial intent.

I mean you're definitely right, it's not the only time anything ever has had a horrible ending.

But Mass Effect is what five years old at this point? A series that (I think it's fair to say) millions of people have been invested in. It's not just a one off game with a bad ending, it's the culmination of a lengthy series with a devoted fanbase with an admittedly very terrible and confusing ending that resolved little conflict of the game and left many questions unanswered. I think said outrage is warranted, and I don't think anyone is pretending or suggesting that it would be an easy thing to do. But rather, that an undertaking to change the ending should be done.

Furthermore, EA and Bioware 100% should be looking at doing something to change the ending since it has alienated a significant portion of their fanbase. I mean $57,000 dollars raised for a charity by people upset by the ending? That has to have gotten some fucking attention and made people in charge realize it's more than just dumb ol' nerds being upset.

I don't think it cheapens anything (except maybe Hudson's shitty ending) to rewrite an ending because of massive complaint by a majority of the fanbase.

I understand where your'e coming from - I think it's misplaced. You're a cool dude Alex, and I hope I'm not coming off like THAT big of a dick.

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by UngorEatStefan

Sorry for bringing up the thing that was super pertinent to my point and calls into question your statements about authorial intent.

You know I actively avoid disagreeing with you usually to avoid this kind of stuff? You might have some great points underneath this sentence, but I don't want to read any of it.

[Decius]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I consider this irrelevant anyway since Drew Karpyshyn is a terrible writer.

He's a perfectly mediocre genre writer, which isn't saying much admittedly.
Marc Walters isn't bad either, he did Garrus in 1/2 and I think everyone loves Garrus. He just wanted to be clever and DEEP and it backfired, because he doesn't have the chops for it. Hudson too made three excellent games, but for some reason signed up for this crappy, illogical and downright tone deaf ending (and unlike what they promised it is only one, since you don't get any feel for the impact of this last "choice", and of course it ignores all decisions and action in the 120h before).

[Benjamin Erle]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

How can anyone take a rewritten ending as a real ending? The authors have written an ending already to their story. The ending is there, it exists. Rewriting that because of negative response cheapens the whole thing. A new ending would feel like fanfic to me, not matter how much I might want another option.

Yeah I mean whenever I write something I don't waste any time revising it or having people critique it.

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Erle

Yeah I mean whenever I write something I don't waste any time revising it or having people critique it.

How many published books have you recalled to completely rewrite the ending?

[Benjamin Erle]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

How many published books have you recalled to completely rewrite the ending?

This mostly depends on the medium you're presenting it through. Changing the ending to a published book is difficult because, uh, it's already been published. You can't just release a patch that will change the physical nature of it.

There are new editions of books printed ALL THE TIME. With revisions, and new things added, some things taken out. There are a few different versions of Stephen King's The Stand to provide an example (though I don't think they have strictly different endings, just some different content).

With a video game in this day and age though, you can change that shit. What is on the CD isn't necessarily what has to end up being the end result. This allows people to, yes, change key aspects of their story if they so choose.

It is silly to think that once a work is "done" it cannot be altered in anyway.

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Erle

This mostly depends on the medium you're presenting it through. Changing the ending to a published book is difficult because, uh, it's already been published. You can't just release a patch that will change the physical nature of it.

There are new editions of books printed ALL THE TIME. With revisions, and new things added, some things taken out. There are a few different versions of Stephen King's The Stand to provide an example (though I don't think they have strictly different endings, just some different content).

With a video game in this day and age though, you can change that shit. What is on the CD isn't necessarily what has to end up being the end result. This allows people to, yes, change key aspects of their story if they so choose.

It is silly to think that once a work is "done" it cannot be altered in anyway.

I KNOW it can be altered, I'm just saying that I, personally, would feel uncomfortable with altering a completed product after I've already finished it and have seen the original ending because I've never encountered that before.

[Benjamin Erle]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

I KNOW it can be altered, I'm just saying that I, personally, would feel uncomfortable with altering a completed product after I've already finished it and have seen the original ending because I've never encountered that before.

I mean, I guess I don't have much to add to this other than "watch the original ending of Blade Runner" like other people have said.

[KikassAssassin]

At first, I sort of agreed with the people who said that the ending is what it is, and even though it's terrible, they should leave it alone because changing it would cheapen the game.

Now, I say "fuck that." What happened to my previous Shepard is what happened in that timeline, but when I replay the series in the future, what happens to my future Shepards will be what happens to them, and playing a different story with a different conclusion the next time around doesn't cheapen the experience. If anything, it makes the experience richer.

The comparison to film isn't a perfect analogy, because films and games have vastly different limitations. After you've seen a film once, you know what happens, and you will never be surprised or have any new experiences on subsequent viewings. In games, especially games that factor in player choice, you don't have that limitation. You can play the game you want to play it, and have a very different experience on subsequent replays. Now, ideally, those different choices should be built into the game from the start, but if they have to be patched in later, I don't think that destroys the artistic integrity of the game. It just expands upon it.

This is especially true in the case of ME3 where the ending literally undoes everything you've accomplished throughout the course of all three games, and on subsequent playthroughs, I'm going to be left with a feeling of, "Who cares, nothing I do matters, so why should I bother?" and that's a fucking shitty thing to do to the player.

[Sprint]

Yup. I mean why bother doing sidequests in ME1 or 2 now?

[Benjamin Erle]

Oh wrex is dead?

don't matter, just destroyed every star system that had a mass relay in it

[KikassAssassin]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Erle

Oh wrex is dead?

don't matter, just destroyed every star system that had a mass relay in it

The Quarians got their homeworld back and achieved peace with the Geth!

Oh, nevermind, the Quarian fleet is stranded at Earth and all the Geth are dead.

The Genophage has been cured and Wrex and Eve are going to lead the Krogan to a new era of prosperity and coexistence with the rest of the galaxy!

Oh, nevermind, Wrex is stranded on Earth with the rest of the Krogan males, and Tuchanka is cut off from the rest of the galaxy now, anyway.



Someone pointed out that in order to get the best ending in Mass Effect 3, you actually have to do zero side quests, and collect as few war assets as you possibly can, because at least in that scenario, most of the various races' fleets will be at their homeworlds when the Mass Relays are destroyed.