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Old 2012-03-16, 5:40 AM   #551
Kamikaze Mime
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So, about the whole indoctrination thing, does that mean that everyone on the citadel has always been indoctrinated, since that is Reaper-tech? And does using too many relays indoctrinate you too, since that, too is Reaper tech?
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Old 2012-03-16, 6:56 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Laoke View Post
Secondly, I'm -really- looking forward to Yhatzee reviewing it : )
I can already see it...

'Due to excessive use of profanity even by our generous standards, certain parts of the next video had to be censored for the protection of our more sensitive readers.'

Followed by a solid 5-minute *BEEP*.
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Old 2012-03-16, 7:00 AM   #553
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I'm actually wondering if he's going to go along with the other gaming journalism sites and lap it up. I hope not.

This isn't something I normally consider, but honestly, I'm kinda suspicious that EA maybe paid for some of those responses.
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Old 2012-03-16, 7:06 AM   #554
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I'm actually wondering if he's going to go along with the other gaming journalism sites and lap it up. I hope not.

This isn't something I normally consider, but honestly, I'm kinda suspicious that EA maybe paid for some of those responses.
Or they just haven't actually played the game to the end.

Like I was talking to my friend (who hasn't played it) about the ending and he watched the ending cinematics on YouTube and thought it was brilliant.

And on paper, the idea that Sheppard is being indoctrinated and the only way to get the real ending is by destroying the Reapers sounds really cool. It sounds like STALKER all over again.

Just in practice, it's fucking terrible.

I suspect that some of the journalists are still playing the game and just pulled up the ending on YOUTUBE and just think everything comes together once they've played to the end. Hell they probably have people in Bioware explaining to them what the ending really is and they've lapped it up.
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Old 2012-03-16, 7:14 AM   #555
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I would think Yahtzee would be more amused by the response than else, paticularly since he's probably gotten a lot of pleading emails for him to tear the game a new one. Besides, he always seems fairly detatched from most works in his reviews, so as to give a more thorough (if...'colourful' ) critique.
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Old 2012-03-16, 8:28 AM   #556
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I agree, that ending link is the way it should have been.

As far as Indoctrination of TIM. Keep in mind indoctrination isn't perfect. Someone with strong willpower can resist it. He may very well have been indoctrinated years ago, but didn't actually succumb to it until now.

Also, there's the fact that indoctrination isn't control, it just skews your beliefs. People believe maybe we've wronged the reapers and peace deserves a chance, people like Saren believed THEY were controlling the reaper and not the other way around. Also, TIM may well have lost control during ME2, keep in mind he sent you into a trap, and his only excuse was he knew you'd succeed. He also sent you to a suicide mission against the Collector base, and when you succeeded again, he begged you to save their base so he could use it himself.
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Old 2012-03-16, 9:11 AM   #557
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I agree, that ending link is the way it should have been.

As far as Indoctrination of TIM. Keep in mind indoctrination isn't perfect. Someone with strong willpower can resist it. He may very well have been indoctrinated years ago, but didn't actually succumb to it until now.

Also, there's the fact that indoctrination isn't control, it just skews your beliefs. People believe maybe we've wronged the reapers and peace deserves a chance, people like Saren believed THEY were controlling the reaper and not the other way around. Also, TIM may well have lost control during ME2, keep in mind he sent you into a trap, and his only excuse was he knew you'd succeed. He also sent you to a suicide mission against the Collector base, and when you succeeded again, he begged you to save their base so he could use it himself.
Thats my reading as well. Look at the final choices: Saren would choose Synthesis, TIM would choose Control. Its an implicit battle against being indoctrinated, and only a maxed out Shepard has the ability to resist.

Look at Saren throughout ME1, and how he goes from fear of being indoctrinated, to believing he will be spared because he could be useful. Its a battle of will. Thats what the ending is meant to convey in my mind.
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Old 2012-03-16, 9:54 AM   #558
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Old 2012-03-16, 9:55 AM   #559
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This rant is awesome

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Old 2012-03-16, 10:01 AM   #560
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Another thing that left me disappointed. During the buildup to Hammer and everything we get a pretty good presentation IMHO of how all the races are here, united, ready to stop the reapers because survival is a million times more important than old petty differences.

I really would have liked to see more cinematics or whatever of everyone working together to perform operation hammer, maybe even some scenes that show how much more important survival was versus centuries old conflict. Maybe a Krogan helps out a Turian in trouble, or a Salarian helps out a Krogan - or a Geth sacrifices itself for a Quarian etc. I think that would have been a nice touch to just demonstrate how big the threat of the reapers are and how amazing it is that Shepard brought them all together to stop the threat.

I also would have liked some more space battle.

Also I just thought of this because I was thinking about Quarian marines. I'm sad we didn't get to fucking hang out with Kal'Reegar one last time. But damn if that dude didn't go out like a fucking champion. Ka'Reegar was such a great character.

I don't quite remember his line form ME2 but when you say, "We don't need your help, take a breather."

"I wasn't asking permission!" *loads rocket launcher*

and then his line to the Turian command who are trying to extract him and his squad instead of defending the important point.

"Our suits are ruptured. We're dead anyway!"

Fuck Kal'Reegar is hard as fuck.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:06 AM   #561
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...
Also I just thought of this because I was thinking about Quarian marines. I'm sad we didn't get to fucking hang out with Kal'Reegar one last time. But damn if that dude didn't go out like a fucking champion. Ka'Reegar was such a great character.

I don't quite remember his line form ME2 but when you say, "We don't need your help, take a breather."

"I wasn't asking permission!" *loads rocket launcher*

and then his line to the Turian command who are trying to extract him and his squad instead of defending the important point.

"Our suits are ruptured. We're dead anyway!"

Fuck Kal'Reegar is hard as fuck.
I remember when I got that email, I was like "Oh no! " and then, got the message from my P.A. that I might want to check in on Tali.

So when I saw her drunk, I immediately assumed she heard the news and was getting plastered because of it.

It was a little weird when I found she was drinking to Miranda, as thought she were dead.

But was still alive.

It was still a fab scene though. BUT STILL.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:09 AM   #562
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It was a little weird when I found she was drinking to Miranda, as thought she were dead.

But was still alive.

It was still a fab scene though. BUT STILL.
I got the impression it was option select in that it could have been for Miranda dying (if she did), but that she was drinking more over her own regrets at not being her own person enough.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:13 AM   #563
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Kal'Reegar owned.
No doubt.

Definitely agree with Stefan on the united races footage and space battle scenes. I mean, the trailers for the game (namely the TV Spots) feature some rad ass shit of hammerheads and Makos and there's a few shots of the Normandy flying around with some other ships. I figured that'd be in the game for sure. Plus, y'know, it'd be Joker's time to shine. He really didn't get a lot of opportunity to show off like he did in ME1 (dropping the team off on Ilos, fighting Sovereign at the citadel) or ME2 (practically going down with the first Normandy, navigating the debris field outside the collector base and then blasting the shit out of the Collector ship, and finally out-flying the final explosion).
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:14 AM   #564
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Next game should be an LA Noire style game featuring Blasto and Elcor sidekick.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:15 AM   #565
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Kal'Reegar owned.
No doubt.
I was really hoping he'd be in the Quarian/Geth story section.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:22 AM   #566
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Ok, days have passed since I beat this and I still do not undestand all the drama... I want to be part of mob outrage but I thought the ending was perfectly fine!
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:24 AM   #567
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Ok, days have passed since I beat this and I still do not undestand all the drama... I want to be part of mob outrage but I thought the ending was perfectly fine!
He's been indoctrinated
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:30 AM   #568
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No he's dreaming!

(serious post though, there are a few articles in the thread that sum up pretty nicely why people are pissed. 5 reasons the fans are right is a good article to read. That 8 min video uploaded sums it up nicely too, although he gets really rantish and demanding at the end.)
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:30 AM   #569
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Also does anyone else think origin is just simply better than Steam?

Why would anyone play Pro Evolution Soccer when FIFA is just so much better?
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:31 AM   #570
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The series just ends on a sour yellow red/blue/green note for many.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:31 AM   #571
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Also does anyone else think origin is just simply better than Steam?

Why would anyone play Pro Evolution Soccer when FIFA is just so much better?
All right, I'm sorry DiNovi but it's too late for you.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:36 AM   #572
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  • You can still redeem yourself, DiNovi!
  • I should go.
  • Kill yourself.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:43 AM   #573
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I beat this game a couple of days ago but haven't really had time to get caught up with the buzz. I must say that the amount of outrage surprised me though. While I understand the disappointment, since the ending wasn't especially satisfying, I can't really wrap my head around the sense of entitlement some gamers show. I mean, the series has provided me with hundreds of hours of entertainment, and to grumble over the last ten minutes seems almost greedy to me (I suppose it helps that I'm a "it's the journey, not the goal" kind of dude).

I'm also somewhat a fan of the indoctrination theory, but in that case would have liked the game to signal it a bit more clearly. Like, say, the AI at the end giving Shepard the Control and Synthesis choices along with more dialogue wheels that support and cement those choices in Shepard's mind. Then, when you start your walk towards one of these choices, you might realize that there is something to the right that you can actually blow up.

I also don't see the Normandy thing being a totally incomprehensible thing either. I might be wrong, but there isn't really clear way of telling how much time has passed, is there (I could be off about this, it was a couple of days ago)? The conventional fighting outside the Crucible is most likely a catastrophe for the allied galaxy, and the last stumbling words from Shepard probably seemed discouraging too. Who knows, the ranking officer (or EDI) might have decided that the best course of action was to do something in another system(who KNOWS). Perhaps the fight was considered lost and steps were taken to sort out Liaras beacon/ help coming cycles.
It doesn't seem weird that the ship crashed either, it was between two anchor points in hyperspace(or the equivalent) when those anchor points burst. Bound to be some stress. That one Harbinger-rusher survived and got evacuated seems more problematic, though.

It is a bit unfair to defend the ending like this though, as it's basically defending a game that isn't actually there, as opposed to the game that actually is. And again, it was some time ago, I might have missed something obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UngorEatStefan View Post
I really would have liked to see more cinematics or whatever of everyone working together to perform operation hammer, maybe even some scenes that show how much more important survival was versus centuries old conflict. Maybe a Krogan helps out a Turian in trouble, or a Salarian helps out a Krogan - or a Geth sacrifices itself for a Quarian etc. I think that would have been a nice touch to just demonstrate how big the threat of the reapers are and how amazing it is that Shepard brought them all together to stop the threat.
Definitely! I would also have like to get some more insight into the original spark behind the reapers/the first cycle.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:43 AM   #574
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I guess I just think of like the second half of the game as the "ending," and then the decision you make at the end caps off your character. "Now youve been through it all, what option do you think is best"

I was also ok with the ending to Deus Ex which was basically the same thing
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:00 AM   #575
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Except all the options are terrible and are pretty much the same with a few cosmetic differences.
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