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Old 2012-03-14, 4:56 PM   #376
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Gabe and Tycho liked Master of Orion III.
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Old 2012-03-14, 4:59 PM   #377
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My understanding of the destroy option was that it targeted just Reaper tech. I could be wrong in that, but it would follow that the Geth -- having uploaded Reaper tech -- and EDI -- enhanced with Reaper tech -- die, along with the destruction of the Citadel and Mass Relays, but effectively leaving other manner of technological doodads unscathed.
So, that by extension means that Shepard is enhanced with Reaper tech. The ultimate sleeper agent.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:06 PM   #378
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Ooh, or maybe that's why he lives!

EDIT: That actually sort of gives me the impression that the stuff with the Relays exploding was actually only for the 'destroy' ending, but for one reason or another, they couldn't finish the other endings. So they altered the dialogue to establish that ALL choices will destroy the relays.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:08 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by frobbnik View Post
Gabe and Tycho apparently liked the ending.

which means I can no longer like Gabe or Tycho
Tycho gave a well reasoned and considered response that I disagreed with but could understand. Gabe seemed to entirely miss the point and equated Joker magically being in space with your crew for no reason with worrying too much about all the innocent people luke killed on the Deathstar.

Twas ever thus.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:09 PM   #380
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Eh, Gabe's counterpoints are basically just accepting things at face value, without doing too much thinking about it. Like he says the Joker/EDI scene was powerful, ignoring the question of why the Normandy was even flying off in the first place. He also just goes along with what the Catalyst claims the Reapers are doing without questioning whether or not they're even telling the truth.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:14 PM   #381
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I don't really have a problem with either of their reasons. I mean, I don't agree with them, and I would probably argue against them, but they're fair perspectives.

Besides, if something moves you, it moves you.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:14 PM   #382
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Yeah, Gabe misses the point. Disappointed in you Gabe. Oh well.

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I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending.
That's some seriously wonky reasoning.

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Lore Errors and Plot Holes
I don’t know much about this one. I’m just not a big enough ME fan to know what’s supposed to happen when a Mass Relay explodes.
What I do know is that you can let yourself get bogged down by details like how long a Star Destroyer is or how many innocent people Luke murdered when he destroyed the Death Star, or you can try and enjoy it knowing that it all doesn’t match up perfectly.
And this is just fucking stupid.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:22 PM   #383
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That first quote is taken out of context. Gabe and Tycho both believe that ME3 as a whole is "the end" as opposed to just the last 10 mins of the game.

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The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending”. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:50 PM   #384
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But in that context then, I hate the ending's end.
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Old 2012-03-14, 5:54 PM   #385
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And I liked ME3 UNTIL the very ending, and then I was just angry at it.
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Old 2012-03-14, 6:16 PM   #386
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I'm kinda sympathetic to the argument that the entire game is an ending. ME3 does do a fantastic job of providing closure for everybody...it just takes it all back at the last minute for no damn reason and adds a bunch of huge plot holes.

Like I really don't have a problem with Tycho's defense of the ending. I think he's a little off base but it's well argued and I'm thankful to see somebody who likes the ending who's willing to admit that I'm allowed to criticize Bioware.

Gabe's argument on the other hand is just bizarre at points. I can understand thinking that the size of a Mass Relay is lore nerd nit-picky but there's just no getting around the fact that your crew are magically in space so they can get to space eden and that's UTTERLY INEXPLICABLE. I don't think that ruins the ending of ME3 by itself but I think it's pretty damning considering it's just one of several huge plot holes in the ending.
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Old 2012-03-14, 6:47 PM   #387
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Another quote I really like: "Wow. So this is what it feels like when someone else uses Paragon/Renegade dialogue options."

Starkid is using Red Dialogue on me. It makes a lot of sense. I can't think of any other reasonable explanation for why my Shepard took a complete 180 from "Kill yourself, TIM" to "Maybe TIM was right " within like, 5 minutes.
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Old 2012-03-14, 6:50 PM   #388
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The Normandy crash is honestly what really took me out of it emotionally, speaking for myself. And that's not nitpicky nerd shit either, it's a matter of "Why is this character millions of miles away from where they were last shown to be presumably minutes earlier?"
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Old 2012-03-14, 6:54 PM   #389
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The Normandy crash is honestly what really took me out of it emotionally, speaking for myself. And that's not nitpicky nerd shit either, it's a matter of "Why is this character millions of miles away from where they were last shown to be presumably minutes earlier?"
There is something seriously missing there to be sure. Maybe Joker was leading the fleet through the mass relay before they exploded or something, I dunno.
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Old 2012-03-14, 6:58 PM   #390
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The thing about the Mass Relays exploding and taking out a star system is that knowing that requires no additional work. It isn't in one of the books or comics, or buried in the codex, it's in THE FUCKING GAME. They fucking TELL YOU.

"Shepard, you blew up that Mass Relay and took out a fucking star system!"
"Shepard if that meteor thing collides with the mass relay, it'll cause a super nova!"
"These explosions are visible from OUTSIDE THE GALAXY THEY'RE SO FUCKING HUGE

It isn't super lore-nerdy to know that when they shove it under your damn nose a dozen times, but then they take it back at the end? What?

And the explosion passes RIGHT OVER the soldiers on Earth and if your EMS score is high enough, it doesn't even ruffle their hair, but apparently the same explosion utterly destroys the Normandy? An armored warship? Really?
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:00 PM   #391
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There is something seriously missing there to be sure. Maybe Joker was leading the fleet through the mass relay before they exploded or something, I dunno.
But then this would mean he somehow knew what was going to happen before Shepard even did. Which is impossible.

I'm just so shocked that Bioware was able to thoroughly fuck up an amazing game in such a short span of time. I would not have believed it before.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:04 PM   #392
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Is it that far fetched that Joker might have decided to pick up the crew and scram when he thought the crucible would be firing? No one knew what the outcome would be! For all he know it would kill everything on Earth.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:08 PM   #393
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My initial reaction to the Normandy crash was, honestly, "Why did they travel back in time?" I expected to see a dinosaur. :-/

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Old 2012-03-14, 7:09 PM   #394
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But then this would mean he somehow knew what was going to happen before Shepard even did. Which is impossible.

I'm just so shocked that Bioware was able to thoroughly fuck up an amazing game in such a short span of time. I would not have believed it before.
I wouldn't say it's impossible. They could have detected a massive buildup in energy in the mass relays or some other technobabble. But it is something unsupported by anything in the ending so it isn't anything more then a wild guess.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:09 PM   #395
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Well, the Mass Relays taking out star systems was a case of an uncontrolled destruction by slamming an asteroid into it. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that the people who created the Relays in the first place would be able to destroy them without taking out an entire system.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:11 PM   #396
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Is it that far fetched that Joker might have decided to pick up the crew and scram when he thought the crucible would be firing? No one knew what the outcome would be! For all he know it would kill everything on Earth.
But that would mean Joker abandoned his fellow soldiers who were still fighting. I also can't picture several of the crewmembers deciding to abandon the fight to run away.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:11 PM   #397
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Is it that far fetched that Joker might have decided to pick up the crew and scram when he thought the crucible would be firing? No one knew what the outcome would be! For all he know it would kill everything on Earth.
Yeah, actually, kinda. Because he'd have to get the Normandy down to Earth, then pick everyone back up again (who were all assaulting the Reaper).

I mean, Cortez got blasted in his tiny shuttle far away from any Reapers. You think Harbinger wouldn't zero in on the Normandy? Or that, seeing Shepard go down, the rest of his squad would just say "Welp, let's go," and not try and avenge him or finish what he started or something?

It's not just far-fetched, it's almost downright impossible.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:16 PM   #398
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And just in response to any sort of justification "Well maybe what Joker was thinking/doing was this..."

A good ending should not leave me having to create obscure or complex justifications for the events. I'm not saying they can't be ambiguous, just that I shouldn't have to make up shit for why it isn't insanely stupid.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:17 PM   #399
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Hell, if you talk to Joker during the course of the game, he finally reveals he has quite a bit of pent-up guilt over getting Shepard killed in ME2. I'm not sure he would abandon Shepard to die again if he thought there was ANY chance of helping out. To say nothing of his loyalty to the fleet. He's not like, a spit shine YES SIR type marine, but he IS a soldier all the same.

Joker, to say nothing of other team members like Liara, Garrus, and/or your LI, aren't going to be likely to hightail it out of the system for any reason without Shepard. And given the Relay explosion magically didn't destroy earth or even have a noticable effect on earth, it's a REALLY huge leap of logic to see why Joker would be like, Out past Pluto where the explosion WOULD have that kind of effect.
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Old 2012-03-14, 7:28 PM   #400
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I'm still not actually sure which one is the "best ending"
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