Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion (Massive UNMARKED Spoilers)

[build me a star]

Oh, how about this? What if they release a DLC that adds a mission into the main game, which then unlocks a new option for the ending if you complete it and then go on to beat the game?

[Darius Sontag]

Originally Posted by build me a star

Oh, how about this? What if they release a DLC that adds a mission into the main game, which then unlocks a new option for the ending if you complete it and then go on to beat the game?

I'd be happy with that.

[The Lazarus]

Man, I wonder which choice Javik would hate more, controlling the Reapers (and letting them live) or making everyone part Synthetic.

[build me a star]

Ooooh oh I also have a new theory about the Control ending. And I guess the Synthesis ending as well, maybe.

Okay so when you first get to the Citadel, Anderson mentions that it looks like the inside of the Collector base; he guesses they are building a Reaper inside the Citadel. Shepard agrees. They never mention this again.

HERE IS MY THEORY

They are totally building a Reaper in the Citadel. That's what the beam is for. They are rounding up people in London and harvesting them for the new Reaper. Now, the Reaper is nearly complete... it just needs one final element, one last soul, to make it all come together and be born. This element, obviously, is Shepard.

And more importantly, Shepard's mind must be her own. Hence why they instead control the Illusive Man to appeal to her logic, and then use the Starchild to appeal to her sympathies. It's all a trick and a trap to complete the harvesting of humanity.

This obviously doesn't explain the Normandy's crash landing or the Stargazer, but it makes a lot more sense to me than "lol TIM was right all along"

[Default_Messiah]

Originally Posted by build me a star

The more I poke around, the more it seems they didn't finish and had to rush out a KOTOR 2 style chopped up ending.

In the leaked script, there are way more ways you and Anderson get to the Conduit, depending on your war assets. There are also unused audio recordings in the game files that have Joker killing Harbinger and potentially rescuing Shepard and Anderson. It seems like they had a more complete ending written out/recorded, but for some reason ran out of time to implement it? So they chopped stuff up and tried to use what they had, and what they managed was what we got...

That does kind of break my heart right there.

[Yunara]

See the problem again with the Indoctrination theory is that no one indoctrinated in the entire game talks about visual hallucinations or anything. That means the AI projection is actually there, and if it was, why would the reapers need to have Sheppard do anything, the crucible clearly wasn't firing, why not just let Shepard bleed out? Why wake him?

And even if they were trying to confuse him, why present a third option that destroys themselves. And they really aren't trying to push him away from any one option. If anything, the child sounds the most invested in the Synthesis option, but he's quite clear Sheppard won't survive either the control or synthesis options, so why would he tell him that if he wanted him to pick those?

[Jaxom]

Anyone else felt let down with Kei-9, the robot dog you could get with a collectors or deluxe edition? Fucker just walks in circles. Can't interact with it aside from saying "Hi there" and "good dog" I wanted the little shit to at least play fetch or something. Stir up some shit in the ship and cause trouble.

[Kachunkachunk]

Yeah, I was a bit let down about that. Kind of a cute and cool design altogether, though.

[Bylak]

The PA report wrote a post about the ME3 ending. I feel like they chose the easiest complaints to defend and kind of missed the point of why people are upset.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...he-series-mass

[Nim]

Like I said, the biggest and most stupid counterpoint anyone attacking the ending will have to deal with is "You just don't like it cause it's sad!"

[AKBoarder]

(copied from someone on PA)

Casey Hudson had this to say, on 17 FEBRUARY 2012

"It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe. So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...y-good/?page=2

[Laconic]

I love that every one of these looks like they pasted a "why the ending of BSG is secretly fantastic" editorial and did some find/replace?

EDIT: Also that is technically true but none of those differences are of any real consequence to the end. It'd be like saying you had 30,000 different endings to an RPG depending on what armor the character was wearing. The events of the ending vary in ways that are only superficial. Hell, even your final choice literally just changes the way the EXACT SAME EVENTS look.

[Bylak]

Originally Posted by AKBoarder

(copied from someone on PA)

Casey Hudson had this to say, on 17 FEBRUARY 2012

"It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe. So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...y-good/?page=2

Yeah so much for that.

[Strix]

The general response from the gaming media has been really surprising to me. There are very few articles, at this point, that I feel accurately represent the ending of the game at all. Every time I read another, I'm left with the sense that either the writer never even played the games or is in EA's pocket.

Leave it to Forbes (weird) to have the only decent articles that objectively discuss why the DLC issues and poor endings have resulted in a black-eye for Bioware and EA business.

-Strix

[Ten]

Hudson has a point. Sort of. Disregarding the effect that your action throughout the entire series has had on the in-game universe is silly. I was talking with a friend about the ending and we had wildly different universes by the conclusion of the game. Different deaths, different worlds saved, different people showing up again.

That's what made the game so amazing up to the conclusion.

The problem isn't that your choices didn't matter up to that point, the problem is there was no follow through. We don't get any reward or underlining of how the choices resulted in very different things because the conclusion is nearly identical no matter what.

[Bylak]

Originally Posted by Strix

The general response from the gaming media has been really surprising to me. There are very few articles, at this point, that I feel accurately represent the ending of the game at all. Every time I read another, I'm left with the sense that either the writer never even played the games or is in EA's pocket.

Leave it to Forbes (weird) to have the only decent articles that objectively discuss why the DLC issues and poor endings have resulted in a black-eye for Bioware and EA business.

-Strix

Would you have a link to the Forbes article?

Originally Posted by Ten

Hudson has a point. Sort of. Disregarding the effect that your action throughout the entire series has had on the in-game universe is silly. I was talking with a friend about the ending and we had wildly different universes by the conclusion of the game. Different deaths, different worlds saved, different people showing up again.

That's what made the game so amazing up to the conclusion.

The problem isn't that your choices didn't matter up to that point, the problem is there was no follow through. We don't get any reward or underlining of how the choices resulted in very different things because the conclusion is nearly identical no matter what.

Gotta keep in mind the date of the quote too, that's something he said about the endings back in Feb.

[Strix]

Originally Posted by Bylak

Would you have a link to the Forbes article?

There are a few, but...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...r-entitlement/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco...mass-effect-3/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco...good-business/

-Strix

[AKBoarder]

 - Link

The full uncut dialogue between Shep and Anderson at the end. Roughly a minute more dialogue than made it into the final game.

And it is a brutal minute.

My heart.

[build me a star]

like, I am actually crying lol

[AKBoarder]

I need a nap.

[Laconic]

Originally Posted by Ten

Hudson has a point. Sort of. Disregarding the effect that your action throughout the entire series has had on the in-game universe is silly. I was talking with a friend about the ending and we had wildly different universes by the conclusion of the game. Different deaths, different worlds saved, different people showing up again.

That's what made the game so amazing up to the conclusion.

The problem isn't that your choices didn't matter up to that point, the problem is there was no follow through. We don't get any reward or underlining of how the choices resulted in very different things because the conclusion is nearly identical no matter what.

I'd agree with that if Bioware would address the fact that the destruction of the Mass Relays is basically a death sentence for everybody in the fleet and most of the species in the game. I give a shit in the moment if I manage to save the Quarians or not but in the end who cares because they're all dead anyway no matter what color I pick to end my game on. The endings legitimately devalue your choices because they're all basically a galactic death sentence.

[build me a star]

Someone posted this on the BSN and it's a good summary/piecing together of what the original ending probably was, based on the leaked scripts and hidden dialogue files. I can vouch for some of it directly, having read the leaked script (the choice to make the Reapers leave for another cycle was definitely in one of the scripts I read, as were the different ways of getting to the Citadel).

Anyway, here it is. If these had been the actual potential endings, this game would have been a fucking home run.

After checking these boards, bioware forums, the twitters of various people involved with the game, audio file rips as well as some information I've gathered from other sources, I decided to talk with someone who used to run their own review website who still has ties to some people in the video game industry. That includes Bioware (they had sent him early review copies of the first ME). Anyway that's not what's important. The point is what I'm about to say you can take with a grain of salt if you want. I'm not here for attention or because I'm a fanboy of bioware. I'm simply here to help you all make sense of this situation. It will make a lot of sense and put the little things you've all found together. The reasoning for the ending change was they needed more time to implement it (this was supposed to be the reason for the delay) but Kinect implementation and the desire by some people (perhaps EA) to have an ending where things are left to interpretation messed with this. The ending was quickly altered which is why things don't "fit" and there are plot holes. Anyway, below is how things were supposed to happen.

The original ending was SUPPOSED to be extremely varied. Everything remained the same up until the part when Harbinger shoots at you and your team. This is when information that has appeared here already comes into play. There were going to be various outcomes determining how you reached the citadel and it was HOW you got there that determined what endings would be available to you. The following were the different scenarios from worst to best (based on EMS and war assets)

A: Your whole squad gets wiped out (the two crew members you took with you, Anderson). You struggle to make it to the citadel. Right as you're about to make it to the beam, Harbinger talks to you, saying you've been defeated and he kills you. Joker tries to swoop down to save you, but he also gets shot down.

B: Most of your squad gets wiped out. Still only you are able to make it to the citadel. Once up there, you must confront the illusive man alone. Because of this, unless you have high reputation and either talk him down or renegade interrupt and shoot him, he kills you and tries to control the reapers, but fails as he discovers he was indoctrinated.

C: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together and make your way to the control panel where you confront TIM. The same thing plays out where you can talk him down. With high enough reputation, you can "save" Anderson but its not necessary for you to make it to the next part. Anderson dies after TIM is shot or kills himself like in the ending we got.

D: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together while you're two squad maters, who clearly survive, are holding off the reapers from following you to the citadel. Everything continues the same here as "C" until after TIM is shot and killed and the final conversation that Anderson and Shepard have (which is much longer than what we got). You get the shorter convo in C.

[The following you only see with outcome "C' and "D"] Shepard looks out at the war going on and activates the crucible. Hacketts says its not working. This is when Harbinger talks to Shepard through TIM as he lies on the ground. Harbinger tries to convince you that you've fail but you can argue with him. Harbinger says that he has your crew in his cross hairs. We see the Normandy arrive (the joker dialogue that was cut) and the rest of your friends help the two squad members you brought with you face off against Harbinger and his reaper minions.

---

You basically have a choice. You can submit to him and he claims he will spare your squad and earth until the next cycle because he is impressed that you were able to make it this far. This is when the motive of the reapers is more clearly established. Harbinger reveals that in the previous cycle, the prothean empire became too vast and they began to control all the other races, which would have prevented all of our races from developing. However, through more discussion, Shepard can uncover their true motives. They fear that they will be rivaled by something more powerful than they are (that this cycle will create AI that can topple the reapers). This implies they are merely fearful for their own survival and that is why they purge all life but they convince themselves they are protecting us.

Either way, you can submit to him and save your people or take your chances. Having 4000 EMS, not submitting to him you would lose everyone, but still eventually get to the three choices we actually got (more on this in a second). Having 5000+ and depending on how you resolved conflicts between characters and races, certain people will live or die.

After rejecting him (whether you lose everyone or not), you end up in the area where vent boy was but hes not there. It's just you and "Harbinger". He explains that a new solution is needed. The solution he tries to convince you to take is merge (to perseve his kind). But if you have high enough reputation once again, you can open the control and destroy option. Harbinger tries to talk you out of it by discussing how your races are divided and mentioning the geth incident. You convince him otherwise, and it is at this point, the control option opens next where he admits that shepard may have a perspective he never considered. Harbinger tells Shepard that if he destroys them, the relays will be destroyed as will the geth (which is true. This is the only ending where the relays are destroyed).

Now for the four endings.

If you submit to him before the three main choices, the reapers leave earth but end up wiping out every other race who haven't proved themselves worthy. Shepard dies.

If you merge, the reapers leave and like the ending we got, we see all the characters we know with green eyes as a green light brightens the sky. Shepard dies for the same reasons in the ending we got.

The control option, the reapers leave. Everyone cautiously celebrates while joker and your LI look up to the sky and wonder what exactly happened. Life goes on but its hinted that the reaper threat may return. This ending ends on a cliffhanger.

The destroy ending does destroy the relays, but its implied that with all the races on earth, they, together, will restore what they lost and will attempt to work together. if shepard lives, your LI leading your squad, will be looking for you. You are beamed back down to earth (its assumed shepard was somehow blasted into the beam? this is the only questionable part). It ends with shepard's hand coming out of the rubble and breathing. Still a cliffhanger of sorts, but you can assume they will find him/her obviously.

[Rutkowski]

Andersson had a family, an ex-wife. >=/

[build me a star]

He did? In the games, or just in the novels?

edit: Actually who cares, he's specifically talking about having children anyway.

[Laconic]

Yeah I would have been totally down with that ending.