[Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition] Forumopolis Bowl Season IV - GG Gitsnik's Gankers GG - Page 29

Archangel3d · 2012-03-27, 2:46 PM

It was too much porn, wasn't it. It's ok, you can tell us.

Laoke · 2012-03-27, 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel3d

It was too much porn, wasn't it. It's ok, you can tell us.

No. Such. Thing.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 3:01 PM

More like not enough porn.

Also, Norse vs. Orcs have started.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 3:18 PM

Orcs elfball to a turn four touchdown. Sidney Crushed'Bones with the assist to Evgeni Maulin'.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 3:49 PM

Dale Headhunter murders Shadowshep in turn 10, still 1-0.

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 4:07 PM

Soooo, everything I know about Necromantic. And could think of at the moment. Some of it may be wrong:

- Necromantic don't play a typical caging game. Their basic plan of attack is to get the ball to a Ghoul or Werewolf, erect a wall of bodies, and then move the ballcarrier from side to side and force the opponent into constantly having to reorganize his defense. Once he makes a mistake and leaves a gap or overcommits to one flank or has too many of his players tied up by Zombies, your fast players make a break for it. You will outrun half your own team at that point, but hopefully you'll have enough Wights/Ghouls/Wolves supporting the ballcarrier to fend off Blitzes for one enemy turn, because that's usually all he'll need to get into the endzone.

So for example, in turn 5 you may have the ball on the left flank and your opponent is setting up his players to defend that side. You stay on the left in turn 6 to make him think you're committed to fighting your way through on that side and he moves the rest of his team over to fully reinforce that flank. Then, on turn 7, you swing over to the right side with your two wolves, ghouls and whatever else you can spare. Your goal in this turn is to screen off your ballcarrier, not necessarily a full cage.

It could look something like this

-------D---D------WW
-D-D-D-D---D-W---------B
-D-D-D-D-----Z---W
-Z-Z-Z-ZZ--Z

where B is your ballcarrier (Ghouls or Werewolf) and D the defenders. The screen isn't as hard to crack as a cage, but it only has to hold off opponents for one turn. Even if one or two opponents get through to the ballcarrier, you can blitz him free or dodge to freedome and score afterwards before the rest of the defense has any time to catch up.

Important note: The screen tactic only works against slower teams. Against faster teams, Necromantic play a more textbook caging game. They're a lot like Humans or Dark Elves, who also play bashy against elves and like passers against bashers.

- Skilling up Werewolves first is key to get them their first two skill (Blodge, usually). Scoring with Wights whenever you can is good too. Ghouls score and skill up naturally as you play games, but they die fast enough that you shouldn't make them top priority.

- Werewolves are your MVPs. They make or break a Necro team. Once they level up, they'll be your best scorers, your best blitzers, your best everythings. But fresh out of the box, Ghouls make better ballcarriers and Wights make more reliable Blitzers. You'll still want to score and blitz a lot with your newbie wolves to get them SPP. Their puppy days will cause you frustrations, but they'll pay you back once they develop into beasts.

- Wights are there to provide reliable blocking on the frontline. When a blitz is too high risk to send in your precious wolves or you're afraid Frenzy would backfire or you need a player to get stuck in a big brawl with no escape route, that's what the Wights are for.

- Ghouls are natural ballcarriers and you want a full pair. That way you'll be able to field one on offense even if one Ghouls gets knocked out. But they're even more valuable on defense. You probably don't need more than one on offense. But two MA7 Blodgers can be vital when you're defending.

- Flesh Golems... there are Necro coaches far more experienced than I am who consider Flesh Golems a waste of gold and team value. I like them, but they'd be the last things I purchase. And until I have every other position filled I make do with two or three extra Zombies to do the Flesh Golems job.

- Zombies are great. No, honestly, they are. You can use them to mark any enemy player and be almost certain that the player you're tying up is more valuable to your opponent than the zombie is for you. Of course they are very, very slow. And that's key to understanding Necromantic. They're a team broken in two parts. Half of them are slow moving roadblocks, the other half are fast hitters and scorers. The trick on offense is to not have the scorers outrun their slow support until there's an opportunity to score in the next turn or two. The trick on defense is to keep your fast hitters close to the roadblocks but be ready to strike immediately and in force when the opponent's ballcarrier is isolated and vulnerable. That often means rushing the enemy ballcarrier on the first turn after the kick-off to prevent him from picking up the ball and moving it into the pocket. But if that initial attempt fails and the ball is moved into a cage, you retreat fast and hard and wait your turn while the Zombies soak up hits.

As for The Scream Machine specifically, I just took a quick look at the team to figure out if there's anything obvious about it, that'd cause problems. And there seems to be.

I don't know what roster you started with, Trickster, and what kind of causalities you took in your first two games, but if the initial roster was anything like the current load-out, it would be very simple to explain why you're not doing well.

In short: One Werewolf, one Wight, one Ghoul, but two Flesh Golems.

Playing a Necromantic team with only one wolf is like boxing with one broken arm. Most Necro teams will start with one wolf because of their price, but getting that second wolf really makes a difference. The problem is worse in your case because you only have one Wight too and Wights are the unsung heroes on Necro teams. You need two to do your dirty work and free up the wolves and ghouls for the more glamorous tasks. As it is, The Scream Machine only has three positionals who can make a play for the ball and it's very easy for your opponent to keep an eye on three players. Leaving the Flesh Golems out of the roster until you have 2 Wights, 2 Wolves and maybe even more than one Ghoul would have served you better.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 4:08 PM

After five straight turns of Algernon getting nuffled and Crushed'Bones and Mauling passing the ball around the Orcs finally launch it to Shane Doan't Run who score the 2-0.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 4:11 PM

2-0, Orcs get their first three skillups.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 4:14 PM

I also bought myself another reroll.

Oh yeah, my blorc got double fives and can chose +ma, +av or any non-mutation he wants. Still block for him or something fancy like dodge to make him very unproneable?

EDIT: My blitzer got the same. +ma or dodge?

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 4:17 PM

Sprint.

Sven Stryker · 2012-03-27, 4:18 PM

General stance on Dodge:
You get it on every possible chance, or none of them. Picking your first Dodge on a team sets up development for the rest of the team. Having just one Dodger makes him the sole target of enemy Tacklers. Having many Dodgers makes you opponent not have enough Tacklers to chase you. Having no Dodgers makes your opponent's Tacklers wasted TV.

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 4:20 PM

There aren't many Tacklers who'd chase a Black Orc over the pitch, or get stuck where BoBs typically are, in the very thick of things.

Still, Sprint is the only choice I can recommend my good friend Rutkowski.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 4:21 PM

Dodge it is then for the Blitzer. The Blorc, however, is probably getting something else.

Sven Stryker · 2012-03-27, 4:23 PM

In general, I like to get Blodge on Roadblocks so they become better Roadblocks. It's hard to beat Blodge, Guard, and StandFirm/SideStep.

Rutkowski · 2012-03-27, 4:25 PM

got no other skill on the guy though and skilling up blorcs takes time

just gonna go with block and mb after that. yeah, i'm as creative as a brick

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 4:25 PM

Seriouspost: Dodge would be my double choice on a BoB if he already had Block and Guard/MB. But he needs Block, and possibly Guard/MB, way more than Dodge and picking Dodge first moves Block and Guard/MB back to the second and third skill up and that's a looooong way for a Black Orc. He wouldn't get there before the end of the season.

Ultimatelyseriouspost: Sprint is the best choice. Particularly on a +MA double roll.

Nim · 2012-03-27, 4:30 PM

For Black Orcs Sidestep is amazing in general, since you can get them all sorts of places a Black Orc shouldn't be able to go.

Not a huge fan of Dodge on BoBs, but dats just me.

Algernon · 2012-03-27, 4:31 PM

Blarg blarg. I am disappoint! Kinda. Mostly. Sure I made some mistakes, since this was my FIRST GAME as Norse everrrr and I actually haven't played BloodBowl for almost a year. So yes, screwed up some things the first turns. And then later everything started going all nuffle-hates-you too, a couple of good very possible TD attempts went all haywire, several dubls-skulls and all that jazz. I just feel meh.
As said, an unskilled Lino died, but fuck him since I had 12 guys on the roster anyway - bought a second runner since I had tons of cash after the bye rounds. Also as I said to Rut, I really wanted a guy called SideShep! Thrower leveled up, got him Sure Hands so maybe he'll stop being a dumbass. And the MVP went to some wulf, thought I can't really recall if he did anything during the game.

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 4:33 PM

Unskilled Linos dying is the best possible outcome Norse can expect from playing Orcs.

Algernon · 2012-03-27, 4:38 PM

I could have apo'd him, but yeah... screw you linos! You were there for one thing - getting punched by blorcs!

Laoke · 2012-03-27, 4:38 PM

I'd consider Jump Up on a BoB, because that makes for a Piling On specialist : )

Nim · 2012-03-27, 4:44 PM

I like Jump Up/PO better on Blitzers, they have better mobility and skill up faster. You really need MB/PO to get a decent killer so starting with Jump Up that's already three skills your BoB would need not even considering Block. A team would be lucky to see even one Black Orc reach level three or four during this league.

Nim · 2012-03-27, 4:48 PM

Also, for anyone who doesn't know about this is a great little toy for calculating odds. A lot of the dice rolls in the game can be pretty esoteric if you're not well versed with the system.

http://elyoukey2.phpnet.org/sac/

Sheldon · 2012-03-27, 5:12 PM

That's a great tool to just familiarize yourself with your chances to pull different stunts off or the risk that what your opponent will try next is gonna work.

Also a good check if you're not sure if you're really getting nuffled or not.

Bassetking · 2012-03-27, 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel3d

Basset: would you be free tomorrow evening at some point after ~7:30 EST?

Algernon: foul Rutowski's team while he's having computer troubles. If he asks, blame Cyanide's UI.

Today would be better, at any time after now.

If it's not today, It'll need to be Friday or Saturday, after 11:00 PM EST.

2012-03-27, 3:01 PM	#703
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	More like not enough porn. Also, Norse vs. Orcs have started. __________________

2012-03-27, 3:18 PM	#704
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	Orcs elfball to a turn four touchdown. Sidney Crushed'Bones with the assist to Evgeni Maulin'. __________________

2012-03-27, 3:49 PM	#705
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	Dale Headhunter murders Shadowshep in turn 10, still 1-0. __________________

2012-03-27, 4:08 PM	#707
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	After five straight turns of Algernon getting nuffled and Crushed'Bones and Mauling passing the ball around the Orcs finally launch it to Shane Doan't Run who score the 2-0. __________________

2012-03-27, 4:11 PM	#708
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	2-0, Orcs get their first three skillups. __________________

2012-03-27, 2:46 PM	#701
Archangel3d Watch Your Mouth Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montreal, Quebec	It was too much porn, wasn't it. It's ok, you can tell us.

2012-03-27, 4:07 PM	#706
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	Soooo, everything I know about Necromantic. And could think of at the moment. Some of it may be wrong: - Necromantic don't play a typical caging game. Their basic plan of attack is to get the ball to a Ghoul or Werewolf, erect a wall of bodies, and then move the ballcarrier from side to side and force the opponent into constantly having to reorganize his defense. Once he makes a mistake and leaves a gap or overcommits to one flank or has too many of his players tied up by Zombies, your fast players make a break for it. You will outrun half your own team at that point, but hopefully you'll have enough Wights/Ghouls/Wolves supporting the ballcarrier to fend off Blitzes for one enemy turn, because that's usually all he'll need to get into the endzone. So for example, in turn 5 you may have the ball on the left flank and your opponent is setting up his players to defend that side. You stay on the left in turn 6 to make him think you're committed to fighting your way through on that side and he moves the rest of his team over to fully reinforce that flank. Then, on turn 7, you swing over to the right side with your two wolves, ghouls and whatever else you can spare. Your goal in this turn is to screen off your ballcarrier, not necessarily a full cage. It could look something like this -------D---D------WW -D-D-D-D---D-W---------B -D-D-D-D-----Z---W -Z-Z-Z-ZZ--Z where B is your ballcarrier (Ghouls or Werewolf) and D the defenders. The screen isn't as hard to crack as a cage, but it only has to hold off opponents for one turn. Even if one or two opponents get through to the ballcarrier, you can blitz him free or dodge to freedome and score afterwards before the rest of the defense has any time to catch up. Important note: The screen tactic only works against slower teams. Against faster teams, Necromantic play a more textbook caging game. They're a lot like Humans or Dark Elves, who also play bashy against elves and like passers against bashers. - Skilling up Werewolves first is key to get them their first two skill (Blodge, usually). Scoring with Wights whenever you can is good too. Ghouls score and skill up naturally as you play games, but they die fast enough that you shouldn't make them top priority. - Werewolves are your MVPs. They make or break a Necro team. Once they level up, they'll be your best scorers, your best blitzers, your best everythings. But fresh out of the box, Ghouls make better ballcarriers and Wights make more reliable Blitzers. You'll still want to score and blitz a lot with your newbie wolves to get them SPP. Their puppy days will cause you frustrations, but they'll pay you back once they develop into beasts. - Wights are there to provide reliable blocking on the frontline. When a blitz is too high risk to send in your precious wolves or you're afraid Frenzy would backfire or you need a player to get stuck in a big brawl with no escape route, that's what the Wights are for. - Ghouls are natural ballcarriers and you want a full pair. That way you'll be able to field one on offense even if one Ghouls gets knocked out. But they're even more valuable on defense. You probably don't need more than one on offense. But two MA7 Blodgers can be vital when you're defending. - Flesh Golems... there are Necro coaches far more experienced than I am who consider Flesh Golems a waste of gold and team value. I like them, but they'd be the last things I purchase. And until I have every other position filled I make do with two or three extra Zombies to do the Flesh Golems job. - Zombies are great. No, honestly, they are. You can use them to mark any enemy player and be almost certain that the player you're tying up is more valuable to your opponent than the zombie is for you. Of course they are very, very slow. And that's key to understanding Necromantic. They're a team broken in two parts. Half of them are slow moving roadblocks, the other half are fast hitters and scorers. The trick on offense is to not have the scorers outrun their slow support until there's an opportunity to score in the next turn or two. The trick on defense is to keep your fast hitters close to the roadblocks but be ready to strike immediately and in force when the opponent's ballcarrier is isolated and vulnerable. That often means rushing the enemy ballcarrier on the first turn after the kick-off to prevent him from picking up the ball and moving it into the pocket. But if that initial attempt fails and the ball is moved into a cage, you retreat fast and hard and wait your turn while the Zombies soak up hits. As for The Scream Machine specifically, I just took a quick look at the team to figure out if there's anything obvious about it, that'd cause problems. And there seems to be. I don't know what roster you started with, Trickster, and what kind of causalities you took in your first two games, but if the initial roster was anything like the current load-out, it would be very simple to explain why you're not doing well. In short: One Werewolf, one Wight, one Ghoul, but two Flesh Golems. Playing a Necromantic team with only one wolf is like boxing with one broken arm. Most Necro teams will start with one wolf because of their price, but getting that second wolf really makes a difference. The problem is worse in your case because you only have one Wight too and Wights are the unsung heroes on Necro teams. You need two to do your dirty work and free up the wolves and ghouls for the more glamorous tasks. As it is, The Scream Machine only has three positionals who can make a play for the ball and it's very easy for your opponent to keep an eye on three players. Leaving the Flesh Golems out of the roster until you have 2 Wights, 2 Wolves and maybe even more than one Ghoul would have served you better.

2012-03-27, 4:14 PM	#709
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	I also bought myself another reroll. Oh yeah, my blorc got double fives and can chose +ma, +av or any non-mutation he wants. Still block for him or something fancy like dodge to make him very unproneable? EDIT: My blitzer got the same. +ma or dodge? __________________ Last edited by Rutkowski; 2012-03-27 at 4:16 PM.

2012-03-27, 4:17 PM	#710
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	Sprint.

2012-03-27, 4:18 PM	#711
Sven Stryker Hi little guy! Join Date: Aug 2005	General stance on Dodge: You get it on every possible chance, or none of them. Picking your first Dodge on a team sets up development for the rest of the team. Having just one Dodger makes him the sole target of enemy Tacklers. Having many Dodgers makes you opponent not have enough Tacklers to chase you. Having no Dodgers makes your opponent's Tacklers wasted TV. __________________

2012-03-27, 4:20 PM	#712
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	There aren't many Tacklers who'd chase a Black Orc over the pitch, or get stuck where BoBs typically are, in the very thick of things. Still, Sprint is the only choice I can recommend my good friend Rutkowski.

2012-03-27, 4:21 PM	#713
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	Dodge it is then for the Blitzer. The Blorc, however, is probably getting something else. __________________ Last edited by Rutkowski; 2012-03-27 at 4:23 PM.

2012-03-27, 4:23 PM	#714
Sven Stryker Hi little guy! Join Date: Aug 2005	In general, I like to get Blodge on Roadblocks so they become better Roadblocks. It's hard to beat Blodge, Guard, and StandFirm/SideStep. __________________

2012-03-27, 4:25 PM	#715
Rutkowski Know nothing about posting Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uppsala/Sweden AKA: Register, Entropy	got no other skill on the guy though and skilling up blorcs takes time just gonna go with block and mb after that. yeah, i'm as creative as a brick __________________

2012-03-27, 4:25 PM	#716
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	Seriouspost: Dodge would be my double choice on a BoB if he already had Block and Guard/MB. But he needs Block, and possibly Guard/MB, way more than Dodge and picking Dodge first moves Block and Guard/MB back to the second and third skill up and that's a looooong way for a Black Orc. He wouldn't get there before the end of the season. Ultimatelyseriouspost: Sprint is the best choice. Particularly on a +MA double roll.

2012-03-27, 4:30 PM	#717
Nim says hello. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Four and twenty blackbirds.	For Black Orcs Sidestep is amazing in general, since you can get them all sorts of places a Black Orc shouldn't be able to go. Not a huge fan of Dodge on BoBs, but dats just me. __________________ You have 8 gold ingots. They are all the same weight, except for one that's marginally lighter. How can you find the lighter using a scale when you can only balance twice? Clue Last edited by Nim; 2012-03-27 at 4:32 PM.

2012-03-27, 4:31 PM	#718
Algernon flip Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Estonia / Estland	Blarg blarg. I am disappoint! Kinda. Mostly. Sure I made some mistakes, since this was my FIRST GAME as Norse everrrr and I actually haven't played BloodBowl for almost a year. So yes, screwed up some things the first turns. And then later everything started going all nuffle-hates-you too, a couple of good very possible TD attempts went all haywire, several dubls-skulls and all that jazz. I just feel meh. As said, an unskilled Lino died, but fuck him since I had 12 guys on the roster anyway - bought a second runner since I had tons of cash after the bye rounds. Also as I said to Rut, I really wanted a guy called SideShep! Thrower leveled up, got him Sure Hands so maybe he'll stop being a dumbass. And the MVP went to some wulf, thought I can't really recall if he did anything during the game. __________________ Emasculation Station

2012-03-27, 4:33 PM	#719
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	Unskilled Linos dying is the best possible outcome Norse can expect from playing Orcs.

2012-03-27, 4:38 PM	#720
Algernon flip Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Estonia / Estland	I could have apo'd him, but yeah... screw you linos! You were there for one thing - getting punched by blorcs! __________________ Emasculation Station

2012-03-27, 4:38 PM	#721
Laoke Evil Little Ducker Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wellington	I'd consider Jump Up on a BoB, because that makes for a Piling On specialist : ) __________________ "The dynamite crate has been glued shut, set on fire, humped, dropped about 6 feet and has been covered with dirt. I wait with awe to see what you're going to do to it next" - Me, Call of Cthulhu* Mafia game 2010*

2012-03-27, 4:44 PM	#722
Nim says hello. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Four and twenty blackbirds.	I like Jump Up/PO better on Blitzers, they have better mobility and skill up faster. You really need MB/PO to get a decent killer so starting with Jump Up that's already three skills your BoB would need not even considering Block. A team would be lucky to see even one Black Orc reach level three or four during this league. __________________ You have 8 gold ingots. They are all the same weight, except for one that's marginally lighter. How can you find the lighter using a scale when you can only balance twice? Clue

2012-03-27, 4:48 PM	#723
Nim says hello. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Four and twenty blackbirds.	Also, for anyone who doesn't know about this is a great little toy for calculating odds. A lot of the dice rolls in the game can be pretty esoteric if you're not well versed with the system. http://elyoukey2.phpnet.org/sac/ __________________ You have 8 gold ingots. They are all the same weight, except for one that's marginally lighter. How can you find the lighter using a scale when you can only balance twice? Clue

2012-03-27, 5:12 PM	#724
Sheldon Den Henkelpott im Visier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhine-Ruhr-Plex, AGS	That's a great tool to just familiarize yourself with your chances to pull different stunts off or the risk that what your opponent will try next is gonna work. Also a good check if you're not sure if you're really getting nuffled or not.