The Avengers

[Ten]

What.

The.

Shit.

Originally Posted by shitty alternative medicine website

Wear the limited edition MAGTITAN NEO LEGEND as seen in Marvel’s the Avengers Movie! Heroes are always looking for new ways to maintain their edge and now you can too! This exclusive limited edition package has been created specifically to commemorate Marvel’s The Avengers movie, and is available in limited quantities worldwide. Like all Colantotte products, the MAGTITAN NEO LEGEND uses Alternating North-South Polarity Orientation (ANSPO™) technology. The stylish design features an elegant combination of pure titanium and carbon which is perfect for Avengers thwarting arch enemies.

[Tesche]

...OK, that kinda makes me want to see the movie less...

[nekodeev]

"Certified as medical devices in Japan"
lol
I wonder if they'll get bitchslapped like Power Balance did here.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by Tesche

...OK, that kinda makes me want to see the movie less...

It's already confirmed by the folks over at Hijinks Ensue that the bracelet things ARE NOT a thing in the movie. All is well.

[nekodeev]

Still bad form as Officially Licensed Merchandise (TM) though.

[Lemonheaded]

Originally Posted by Dante

It's already confirmed by the folks over at Hijinks Ensue that the bracelet things ARE NOT a thing in the movie. All is well.

Actually, I remember seeing a clip that I thought had a really odd little bit in it:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/ar...new-featurette

Check out the first video. I haven't seen the film yet, so I don't know what the context is... but that sure looks like the product they're pushing to me.

[Trickster]

Originally Posted by Muscular Mordecai

Yes. Everyone involved in shaping the characters into what they are today deserves a cut. David Michelinie and Bob Layton, for example, should have gotten royalties for Iron Man 2. Just because children today don't know who Jack Kirby is doesn't mean his memory has to be thrown aside so we can get more superhero stuff, and the fact that you think even hinting at that is a good idea shows what a great job Marvel have done at glossing over his contribution.

No one is saying you HAVE to boycott anything. I even said I'm seeing the Avengers. Just... get educated. Be aware of the realities of the situation, and don't throw a tantrum when someone else makes the personal choice to not take part. Or even talks about the issue.

Here's a good quote about what I'm talking about.

hm. had a big post written out but the forums ate it.

anyhoo, i agree that Jack Kirby needs more recognition but it's a slippery slope when you start saying who deserves what on account of who their father/grandfather was.

do alexander graham bell's decendants deserve a cut of the iphone profits? where do we draw the line?

if people want to help they should avoid this stupid,passive aggressive boycotting (which is the most USELESS way to protest a blockbuster movie) and create a youtube documentary, explain who he is and put a positive spin on why he should be recognised.

people respond to that sort of shit. This negative 'well i'm not going to see it, nyah' shit isn't helping anyone.

[Trash Boat]

Originally Posted by Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster

What about them? Are they owed a larger portion of proceeds from The Avengers than the people who actually made the film, because they were... related to the creator?

No, they're owed a fair portion of the proceeds (no one said anything about larger than anyone else) because if things were equitable, Kirby would have left his royalties and management of the rights to his family.

Originally Posted by Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster

Sure, equivalent to the amount of work they put into its production. Otherwise they're getting paid for having done nothing but being related to someone successful, the fantasy-novel equivalent of Paris Hilton.

This would be more accurate if Paris Hilton actually had a hand in managing Hilton hotels, which she doesn't.

Originally Posted by The Dude

When you make a choice and claim to be doing so in a loud and public fashion you are implying everyone else who is not behaving as you must be immoral whether you say it or not.

And no one likes a moralizing jackass who exists to make other people feel down about enjoying something. Fuck the David Brothers's of the world.

Brothers was just laying out his own moral position. The fact that you object to this says more about you than him, honestly.

Oh, and I asked him about this actually:

https://twitter.com/#!/hermanos/stat...32682740002816

@hermanos How do you feel about people reading your Ethical Rot article as some sort of personal attack?

@Lughser They're crybabies with poor reading comprehension, I figure. I didn't suggest a boycott on purpose. Strictly talking about me!

Originally Posted by Trickster

anyhoo, i agree that Jack Kirby needs more recognition but it's a slippery slope when you start saying who deserves what on account of who their father/grandfather was.

It's impossible for Marvel to make it right with Kirby himself because he's dead, and "Created by" credits are cold comfort, an empty gesture. The closest we can get is Marvel making it right with his family.

Originally Posted by Trickster

do alexander graham bell's decendants deserve a cut of the iphone profits? where do we draw the line?

No. That would be like saying that Richard Outcault's descendants deserve a cut of the Avengers profit because it's based on a comic, and the Yellow Kid was basically the first comic strip. That's a huge leap.

As for where the line should be drawn in comics... I dunno. Inker? Why shouldn't all the people who were involved with the creation and molding of the characters get something? I know that Chris Claremont doesn't get anything for the merchandising of characters he co-created - Psylocke, for example - but why shouldn't he?

Originally Posted by Trickster

if people want to help they should avoid this stupid,passive aggressive boycotting (which is the most USELESS way to protest a blockbuster movie) and create a youtube documentary, explain who he is and put a positive spin on why he should be recognised.

I tend to agree, which is why I think the best thing to do is to bug Marvel and DC about it. I'm pretty sure they think that none of their actual customers care about ethics, so they're free to do what they want.

Originally Posted by Trickster

people respond to that sort of shit. This negative 'well i'm not going to see it, nyah' shit isn't helping anyone.

That's not what anyone said. Honestly, I don't agree with a boycott - I linked these articles simply to point out that there are people who aren't comfortable with these ethical issues, not to try to make anyone feel bad about themselves.

Actually, Kurt Busiek mentioned something that might help... Chris Roberson helped lay it out in this interview, under the question "Is there anything you can point to that DC could change that would make you feel comfortable working for them again?"

Maybe we should start a new thread for the discussion of the ethics of Marvel and DC?

[Dante]

To take a break from the comic book ethics discussion, it's been spoiled as to what the MIDDLE OF THE CREDITS scene is (Apparently there's one at the END of the credits that won't be seen till the US opening. I'll use spoiler tags, but Marvel Cosmic fans a gonna be happy...

Thanos. With one of the Infinity Gems.

I'd post a Youtube clip, but every one that's gone up so far has had a takedown notice posted...

[Malrick]

Guys why are you arguing? The film won't make any money anyways, just like Spider-man.

[Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster]

Originally Posted by Muscular Mordecai

No, they're owed a fair portion of the proceeds (no one said anything about larger than anyone else) because if things were equitable, Kirby would have left his royalties and management of the rights to his family.

Might have, you mean. There are untold numbers of creators who have squandered solid deals all on their own.

While it's unfortunate that Kirby took the deal he did, I'm not sure how that's somehow retroactively fixed by giving a pile of cash to heirs whose greatest accomplishments are 'being related to someone creative who got a bad deal.'

[Trash Boat]

Originally Posted by Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster

Might have, you mean. There are untold numbers of creators who have squandered solid deals all on their own.

While it's unfortunate that Kirby took the deal he did, I'm not sure how that's somehow retroactively fixed by giving a pile of cash to heirs whose greatest accomplishments are 'being related to someone creative who got a bad deal.'

No, the fact that Kirby DID leave the rights to properties he did have ownership of to his kids is pretty conclusive proof that if he had at least partial ownership of his Marvel and DC creations, he would have left them those as well. Additionally, the Kirby estate does receive royalties for the DC stuff, which is fair and kudos to them for that.

What properties does the Kirby estate own? Well, they include Silver Star, Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers, the Kirbyverse (as published by Topps Comics) and so on. Lisa Kirby co-wrote a series called Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters based on some unused concepts that was actually published by Marvel's Icon imprint before their relationship soured.

Also, there's an ongoing project called Kirby: Genesis that is being published by Dynamite comics utilizing these ideas.

The Kirbys have never been and are not planning on being layabout heirs.

Also, its not about "fixing" what was done to Kirby. That's an impossible task, unless you're a D&D cleric. He's dead. What all this is about is treating creators like the essential linchpins they are, rather than as human garbage, cogs in the machine who are there to be used up and tossed aside.

[Laoke]

This was released yesterday in NZ.

It's very, very, very cool. The Hulk steals every single scene he's in

[Syk]

Originally Posted by Laoke

This was released yesterday in NZ.

It's very, very, very cool. The Hulk steals every single scene he's in

[Phantom]

How the hell is it taking so long to release in the US?

[Laconic]

Studios have started counter-programming internationally and some have started releasing movies earlier in international markets to try and grab some extra money (Battleship is already out in a ton of foreign markets for instance) so the release windows that are good for America are no longer going to line up that well with an international release so sometimes the lag can be a few weeks or even a few months before there's a decent hole in the US release schedule where you can put a movie as big as The Avengers.

Also, God hates us.

[Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster]

Originally Posted by Phantom

How the hell is it taking so long to release in the US?

The further back you're getting from Memorial Day, the worse your movie is going to do. Right now, Men in Black 3 has that locked up, so Avengers was pushed out early enough to avoid being steamrolled but not too early to miss some of the summer audience.

[Trash Boat]

I just want to say that if anyone thinks I'm lecturing or trying to guilt trip them, I'm not and I apologize. I think these issues are important, but they're not worth losing friends (or even internet acquaintances) over.

I mean I'm super excited to see this movie, especially with my best friend who is the biggest Captain America fan, and I posted most of this while watching the old 90s X-Men cartoon on Netflix. I just wish the creators we all love got a better deal, you know? Dudes who created the ideas behind movies that make like a billion dollars should be living it up in mansions or nice townhouses, not finding it impossible to pay their medical bills.

Originally Posted by Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster

The further back you're getting from Memorial Day, the worse your movie is going to do. Right now, Men in Black 3 has that locked up, so Avengers was pushed out early enough to avoid being steamrolled but not too early to miss some of the summer audience.

It's going to be out for a long time, though.

[Aries Walker]

Well, it will pancake Dark Shadows, The Dictator, Battleship, and What to Expect When You're Expecting. I'm putting it on, yeah, Men in Black III on May 25th by the time it finally falls from the number one slot.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Ben Wyatt: Human Disaster

The further back you're getting from Memorial Day, the worse your movie is going to do. Right now, Men in Black 3 has that locked up, so Avengers was pushed out early enough to avoid being steamrolled but not too early to miss some of the summer audience.

It just seems weird to me to be working to avoid spoilers from non-US audiences on a major blockbuster. I can't recall that experience with any other similar movies. If anything, I'm surprised they didn't delay the release overseas to prevent such spoilers and/or piracy in the US.

[Aureate]

Originally Posted by Laoke

This was released yesterday in NZ.

It's very, very, very cool. The Hulk steals every single scene he's in

You mean he smashes every scene he's in

[One Thursday]

I've been so spoiled. Ugh. Incredibly hard to avoid spoilers. I still want to see it, though. Heard they're giving away posters for the midnight showing if you do IMAX.

[Laoke]

Originally Posted by Aureate

You mean he smashes every scene he's in

That also. Seriously, it's full of awesome HULK SMASH moments.

In terms of spoilers - I'm pretty delibrately putting nothing overly specific in mine. I mean it's almost as if I'm used to movies being released in a foreign market months ahead of their NZ release....

[Bland]

I'm on an Avengers blackout. I'm not even watching TV spots. It's really tempting to read every spoiler.

[Aureate]

Originally Posted by Aureate

I kinda hope the movie is over the top and epic and then just ends with:

"What now?"
"...Lunch?"
"I could eat"

Fucking called it.