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Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 2:05 PM
I've looked into a few ideas for Dark Sun, but there's no way I'd pick one until I see how the races and classes work in Dark Sun from the actual book.

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 2:07 PM
So, judging off that article and what was being said last week, Divine power source classes are out, and Arcane source classes are asking for trouble in a manner that makes them nigh-unplayable as well?

As for me, I think I might like to try the Defender role again if nobody else wants it. I'm actually open to any role but Leader in Dark Sun simply because I just came from a Leader role and I'm planning to play another Leader in Setour. But if someone else has a hankering for a Defender, I'm more than happy to try a Striker or Controller.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 2:12 PM
I really, really don't want to pick roles before I see how classes and races work.

Edit: I was primarily looking at Defenders and Hybrids.

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 2:14 PM
Divine is right out the window.

Arcane is universally reviled but not unplayable. It certainly presents both challenges and story opportunities, and has a very "wielder of a secret power" feel to it.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 2:30 PM
Mainly, I wanna know how Muls and Thri-Kreen work, if Genasi even exist, and how Swords and Spiked Gauntlets work/exist.

Stuff I'm looking at are Brawler Fighter, Swordmage, and Hybrid Swordmage|Artificer.

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 2:32 PM
I have a character somewhat halfway in mind, obviously the mechanics are going to be forthcoming after the materials are out, but there is a past character that I've thought of that might work well for a post-apocalyptic world.

There's just ooooonnnnneeeeee issue I have. It's a she.

Edit: Yeah, never mind that shit. That'd just be weird.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 2:33 PM
I need to learn more about the setting before I can even think of a concept. I still like the idea of a Psion interrogator. Or maybe some sort of wandering nomad searching the desert for oases; basically looking for the equivalent Shangri La.

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 3:02 PM
Mainly, I wanna know how Muls and Thri-Kreen work, if Genasi even exist, and how Swords and Spiked Gauntlets work/exist.

Stuff I'm looking at are Brawler Fighter, Swordmage, and Hybrid Swordmage|Artificer.

I suppose it would be silly of me to say "don't worry about the mechanics, but rather pick a concept", huh?

I have a character somewhat halfway in mind, obviously the mechanics are going to be forthcoming after the materials are out, but there is a past character that I've thought of that might work well for a post-apocalyptic world.

There's just ooooonnnnneeeeee issue I have. It's a she.

Edit: Yeah, never mind that shit. That'd just be weird.

... That's slightly strange, but not unacceptable. Heck, roughly half my NPCs have been female.

I need to learn more about the setting before I can even think of a concept. I still like the idea of a Psion interrogator. Or maybe some sort of wandering nomad searching the desert for oases; basically looking for the equivalent Shangri La.

See, I like this a lot. In fact, my question to you would be why not both: A Psion interrogator who "extracts" information about the hidden oases out in the desert. The only question is who does he work for? He could be a Templar military spy/scout/tactician for the armies of a Sorcerer King. He could be a member of one of the Trade Houses, looking to steal the best/secret trade routes from other Houses. He could be a Slaver: hidden oases often have secluded settlements that are prime raiding targets. He could be a member of the Veiled Alliance (the underground cabal of Preservers), seeking fonts of life.

Even if you just of with the Psion Interrogator, it leaves a lot of city-stuff open to you, either as a Templar, a Merchant or as a Veiled Alliance member.

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 3:29 PM
... That's slightly strange, but not unacceptable. Heck, roughly half my NPCs have been female.

World of difference between a DM and a player, though. Even a recurring NPC isn't full time. I have no reservations playing the title character of my Neversong game, a goddess, but a PC, eh. I don't know why I have such a problem with it, either.

Probably because I think of Francis playing a girl character in PvP. :yeahrite:

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 3:35 PM
See, I like this a lot. In fact, my question to you would be why not both: A Psion interrogator who "extracts" information about the hidden oases out in the desert. The only question is who does he work for? He could be a Templar military spy/scout/tactician for the armies of a Sorcerer King. He could be a member of one of the Trade Houses, looking to steal the best/secret trade routes from other Houses. He could be a Slaver: hidden oases often have secluded settlements that are prime raiding targets. He could be a member of the Veiled Alliance (the underground cabal of Preservers), seeking fonts of life.

Even if you just of with the Psion Interrogator, it leaves a lot of city-stuff open to you, either as a Templar, a Merchant or as a Veiled Alliance member.

Yeah, this is why I wanna find out more about the world. I have no idea what's in it! Knowing more about the organizations and politics will help me a lot.

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 3:36 PM
Yeah, this is why I wanna find out more about the world. I have no idea what's in it! Knowing more about the organizations and politics will help me a lot.

^-- Yeah, this.

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 3:54 PM
World of difference between a DM and a player, though. Even a recurring NPC isn't full time. I have no reservations playing the title character of my Neversong game, a goddess, but a PC, eh. I don't know why I have such a problem with it, either.

Probably because I think of Francis playing a girl character in PvP. :yeahrite:

Hmmm, you're right there. Despite the fact that I play women all the time as a DM, I don't think I could be a PC with a woman character. I guess there's a deeper connection there: To the DM, a female character is one of a hundred hats they have to wear. To the player, the female character is an extension of one's self.

I will say this; my wife chose to make a male character when making Spirit of the Century characters. Her logic was that if the character was female, it would be too close to herself, and she wouldn't be "roleplaying" so much as acting as herself. By making her character male, it created a big enough gap that she had to ask herself "what would my character do" and question the motivations and personality (drunk, poor, ex-private eye who ran afoul of the mob. A bit cliché, but such an awesome, fun character to see in action), rather than just "being herself".

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 4:06 PM
As for the setting, politics and stuff, I'll see what I can pull up before hand. After all, the City States, Sorcerer Kings and factions are the same as they were back in the boxed set of the 2nd edition*

*Except Kalak. Bastard got Spear'd something fierce (which is what happens in the first Dark Sun novel, the new campaign setting is set right after that, rather than right before).

A good change in my opinion, because it makes the geopolitical climate all that more dangerous (hey look, a rich City-State without a ruler om nom nom) and makes politics within the courts and cities of the other kings very dicey (omg Sorcerer Kings can die!) and provides a wonderful example of what happens when a society that is run on the backs of slaves suddenly liberates all of them (hint: not fun).

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 4:10 PM
Her logic was that if the character was female, it would be too close to herself, and she wouldn't be "roleplaying" so much as acting as herself.

I thought about this as well. Its just play acting and within a group that's mature enough to tell the difference between character & player. And you'd think that I'd be comfortable and/or familiar enough with my own sense of self that it wouldn't be a problem.

But I don't know. It would still be odd. I'm sure my wife would look at me oddly, but there's nothing new there.

Rampage
2010-07-12, 4:10 PM
I'm kinda thinking Tri-keen(spelling) atm actually. Possibly an exile from his people, or maybe just a being with enough curiosity and wanderlust to trek the desert with a bunch of mammals. No idea on class really, something primal most likely.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 4:18 PM
Can all Thri-keens in this campaign wear hooded cloaks so I don't have to stare at creepy mantis-people tokens? :handbag:

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 4:20 PM
Can all Thri-keens in this campaign wear hooded cloaks so I don't have to stare at creepy mantis-people tokens? :handbag:
Hell no. That's the best thing about Thri-kreen. (I love me some Thri-Kreen)

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 4:22 PM
Guhhhh.

IamFrums
2010-07-12, 4:27 PM
Reminds me of the aliens from Starslip Crisis

Rampage
2010-07-12, 4:30 PM
Probably my favorite new piece of art to come out of Wizards for fourth edition.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 4:32 PM
What are the dudes that are attacking? They don't look like humans.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 4:38 PM
The one with the gaunt face near the lower right reminds me of various Gith. Not sure how Gith would fit into Dark Sun at all though.

Jaaboo
2010-07-12, 4:43 PM
Is it legit to call Thri-keen (?) "cockroaches?" Cus yeah.

Anyway, I think I am going to need some hand-holding on the setting, I really know nothinkz. I assume there are a lot of race/class changes from normal D&D.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 4:48 PM
Dunno, maybe. It's why I want to see the 4e book. I only have vague memories of Dark Sun for the most part.

Rampage
2010-07-12, 4:51 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun

http://www.darksunwiki.com/darksun/index.php/Main_Page

Dunno, maybe. It's why I want to see the 4e book. I only have vague memories of Dark Sun for the most part.

http://www.darksunwiki.com/darksun/index.php/Gith

All based on old information though. Who knows what fourth edition is gonna flip upside down.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 4:58 PM
Damn. I coulda sworn that Orcs and Half-Orcs existed in Dark Sun. Welp, there goes that RP idea.

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 5:07 PM
I do believe that Half-Orcs are Muls in Dark Sun now (flavor-wise they are half-dwarf half-human hybrids, bred for slave work and arena combat, and are sterile from birth)

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 5:08 PM
I was pretty sure that Muls were an entirely new race what with the new Racial ability and all. Plus, Muls don't have tusks. (gladiator slave that had really fast growing teeth so his Master broke them off every month so he'd look normal in the ring)

Lemonheaded
2010-07-12, 5:11 PM
Is there any group working to try to reverse the damage to the world? I understand that Athas being a bleak and savage world is most of the appeal, but is there any hope of returning vegetation and civilization to it? Are there any druids or mystics somewhere trying to terraform, or is it just too far gone to bother?

Rampage
2010-07-12, 5:11 PM
Makes me regret not making off with all the demo character sheets after that game at PAX was over with.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-12, 5:13 PM
Makes me regret not making off with all the demo character sheets after that game at PAX was over with.
http://critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-dark-sun-characters/

Also:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DarkSun_Tuzul.pdf
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DarkSun_TwoCoins.pdf
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DarkSun_Mantis.pdf (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DarkSun_TwoCoins.pdf)

Edit: +Str/+Dex isn't a possible valid stat set for either of the 2 Mul characters, so I am fairly confident they aren't using the Half-Orc racial statistics. That doesn't mean that Half-Orcs will exist in Dark Sun, it just means I don't think that they are a replacement like Goliaths are for Half-Giants.

Archangel3d
2010-07-12, 5:59 PM
Is there any group working to try to reverse the damage to the world? I understand that Athas being a bleak and savage world is most of the appeal, but is there any hope of returning vegetation and civilization to it? Are there any druids or mystics somewhere trying to terraform, or is it just too far gone to bother?

There are a few. The most well known one is the Veiled Alliance, a group of Preservers (arcane magic users who train themselves to only take very small amounts of energy from plants). But these are mostly kept to cities, where they actively work against the minions of the Sorcerer Kings (unless there's something out in the desert/ruins that they need to continue their fight, at which point they send their toughest, least essential members). They believe that as long as the Sorcerer Kings are alive, there is no hope for renewing Athas (which is fairly accurate, since each Sorcerer King is a disgustingly powerful Defiler).

However, being unable to match the Sorcerer Kings in strength, magic, manpower or resources, the Veiled Alliance contents itself with sabotage, murder of Templars and their allies, disrupting commerce/diplomacy, inciting riots and other acts of terrorism.

There are a few others, like the barbaric, backwards communes of druids who want to see civilization collapse entirely, or those who want to push the world off the brink and have it razed clean to start over from scratch.

Jaaboo
2010-07-13, 11:15 AM
http://critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-dark-sun-characters/

It's interesting (and kinda cool) the Warlock pact is with a Sorcerer-King. There definitely seems to be new powers and options specific to the setting as well. I hope the Character Builder will include this stuff as well.

I'm sorta leaning towards a Druid, seems like it would be a fun fit in a world like this to play a scavenger, and a druid scavenger might actually be a bit too used to living off society's fringes, much like the shapes he takes.

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 10:04 AM
Hm. How interested are you guys in the Goblin campaign? 'Cause I'm getting an ambivalent vibe from the whole thing. Is it the Aspects? On my side, I'm totally willing to run it, but at the same time I'm getting a lot of ideas that I'd like to "save up" for the Dark Sun campaign instead.

Also, Lemon: I'd like to have a word with you at some point about Frameworks and such, since I don't really have much experience with them. Basically, I'm looking to have more organized, uniform macros and effects; the way things evolved over the past year and a half made things really messy, and destroyed one of the three skulls.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-15, 10:06 AM
Talk to RGCrab on the forums. and destroyed one of the three skulls.
also lol

Jaaboo
2010-07-15, 10:51 AM
and destroyed one of the three skulls.

ROFL

I really like the idea of the Goblin game, I just had trouble with the aspects because I wasn't feeling very creative or perhaps been reading too much Goblins.

As for frameworks, I use Veggiesama's but it is sooooo slow. Easy to use, though.

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 11:37 AM
Oh, I didn't know you also used a Framework, Jaab. When you say "slow" do you mean:
- the speed at which you can create NPCs and general macros?
- the amount of prompts to type in values when using a power macro?
- the general lag transmitting the use of a macro?

Jaaboo
2010-07-15, 11:42 AM
The use of them is pretty slow. Making NPCs and PCs is pretty easy for the most part. Running the macros can be pretty slow to transmit them, run on the server (which is not wonderful, my machine needs an upgrade), and some users like Endless_Harlequin who has a pretty old laptop with little memory can take up to 30s to run a macro.

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 11:45 AM
Yuck

Sven Stryker
2010-07-15, 11:46 AM
My gripe with frameworks is that when there is an error, it's annoying to track down. I prefer macros that I can proofread and check to make sure they're adding the right numbers. (like people adding proficiency to implement attacks and such when they shouldn't)
- the general lag transmitting the use of a macro?
Some of the frameworks I've seen can take a while between when you press the button and when they post. I'm not very knowledgeable of them though.

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 12:34 PM
Ah well. We can salvage the more-or-less standard action template we were using, and just make sure to enforce its use.

There are a couple of non-character specific macros I'd like to have, and I don't have the skill/knowledge to even know if they're possible:

- A macro to roll initiative for each player, using their own initiative score.
- A macro that would add a predetermined state to any or all selected tokens (or remove it if it was already added).
- - - - It would be awesomely cool to have a checklist to choose from, but I would be ok with just one macro button per status effect.

I would have these as Global Macros (not local) and they would be a huge help in moving fights along quicker: Going: right click > states > ongoing > fire takes a long time. I had hoped to add specific, color coded status effects (to know which ones are End of Turn, and which ones are Save Ends), but right now assigning status effects is painful and long.

Rampage
2010-07-15, 12:37 PM
I am cool with the Golblin game, it would be something different. I almost want to play Shinkicker up with a football hooligan kind of mentality.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-15, 12:39 PM
- A macro that would add a predetermined state to any or all selected tokens (or remove it if it was already added).
- - - - It would be awesomely cool to have a checklist to choose from, but I would be ok with just one macro button per status effect.
Isn't this how our current take damage Macro triggers the bloodied status? I'm fairly certain that could be modified for any Status.

e.g. [setState("Slowed",1)]

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 12:55 PM
From what I remember from my brief attempts, that only worked if it was a macro on the token, and set the state of the token locally. What I would have likes was a Global macro, not tied to a specific token, that would affect any token or tokens I currently had selected.

I am cool with the Golblin game, it would be something different. I almost want to play Shinkicker up with a football hooligan kind of mentality.

"Hooligan" is a pretty good Aspect. :)

Sven Stryker
2010-07-15, 12:59 PM
Worked for me? I just made a Macro in my Global tab(what I posted above except I used Incapacitated), group selected a bunch of tokens and clicked it in the Global tab. It turned them all to outlined in red circles. (since I don't have fancy pictures on my testCampaign)

Lemonheaded
2010-07-15, 1:02 PM
I'd be happy to talk to you about frameworks. But I just know how to operate them, not to add to/code them... Crab would definitely be the person to talk to about that. Honestly, the lag is a lot less noticeable depending on how you have MapTool set. When you open up MapTool, there's a little dialogue box that asks about stack size and max memory... if you bump those up, frameworks run a lot smoother.

If you're interested, they're super easy to try out. You'd get the hang of it right away and be able to decide whether or not it's something you want to make use of.

As for the Goblin game, I'm fine with it. It sounds like fun. In a perfect world, we would be playing Dark Heresy, but I think I'm the only one who wants that. :P

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 1:04 PM
Nah, I was kinda hoping for Dark Heresy, too, because I loves me some Dark Future of the the 41st Millennium. But majority rules. Besides, we'd have too few sessions to really get used to the rules; Dark Sun comes out in a month or so.

Archangel3d
2010-07-15, 1:05 PM
Worked for me? I just made a Macro in my Global tab(what I posted above except I used Incapacitated), group selected a bunch of tokens and clicked it in the Global tab. It turned them all to outlined in red circles. (since I don't have fancy pictures on my testCampaign)

Awesome. I had tried it on a much older version. Maybe they updated that functionality or something since then. Woo :D

Archangel3d
2010-07-16, 7:36 AM
Go. Read. Learn of the society of Athas. (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20100716)

This is a pretty useful article, it gives a good look into the different castes in Athasian culture. Remember that if your character is if Noble stock, he may eventually inherit family duties (unless his family land has been taken away, or he's been banished for whatever reason)

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 8:53 AM
Monday: Until you learn otherwise, it’s best to assume that everyone you meet intends to rob you, enslave you, or eat you.

Haha.

Okay, so considering a psionic Templar interrogator... essentially an inquisitor working to weed out mages and dissenters for a Sorceror-King (will have to learn more about them before I can consider which). BUT, that character would kinda be a dick and could be at odds with other characters in the group. On one hand, it could be cool to have someone in the group subtley working against the rest of the group's interests, if they're rebels. Or it could be super annoying. Or maybe the rest of the group will be loyal to a Sorc-King as well and it wouldn't be a problem. Or everyone's working for a different one and we're all basically spying on each other. I dunno.

Also still considering a nomad/hermit... maybe someone who believes there's an "ultimate" oasis out there, some last enormous piece of truly unspoiled land, like the Lost World. I'd probably be some sort of martial or primal class in that case.

Archangel3d
2010-07-16, 9:20 AM
A Loyalist group would be a very interesting group! And by "Loyalist" I mean "works towards their own best interest but loosely aligned with civilization, law and one of the Sorcerer Kings, as opposed to being aligned with freedom and chaos and social upheaval".

Being a Templar would give you contacts, superiors to give you missions, and a choice of overarching goals ("secure my position and rise in the ranks of the templarite so that I can have flunkies to order around" being the most popular one, while "faithfully serve the Sorcerer King" being exceptionally rare).

And other types of characters are all put into the service of the City-State at some point; Nobles are expected to provide whatever services the King requires, Merchants wanting special trade consideration would seek to curry the favors of various Templars, and hirelings, soldiers and slaves of those various Templars, Nobles and Merchants (with varying degrees of loyalty, or loyalties). Ultimately, anyone who works for the templars/Sorcerer Kings wants something; wealth, power, status, possibly some form of magical assistance.

Of course, the politiking in these circles would be rather fierce; they might not outwardly backstab each other, but each will try their best to make themselves look better than their compatriots, in an effort to earn more glory/fame/rewards from the Sorcerer King and his High Templars.

The more I think of it, the more I realize that a "Loyalist" group would be a combination between D&D, Dark Heresy and Paranoia.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 9:36 AM
The more I think of it, the more I realize that a "Loyalist" group would be a combination between D&D, Dark Heresy and Paranoia.

Shhhhh. They're not supposed to know. I'm going to play a damn Inquisitor one way or another!

Jaaboo
2010-07-16, 9:42 AM
Thanks for linking that, Arch.

I am still leaning in two directions; A "scavenger" druid who lives off the fringes of society & tribes, whose politics and loyalties only lie in the direction of who ever can throw the old dog a bone, or, a rebellious younger child of a powerful merchant family, unhappy with the family's practices and their gaudy levels of display and wealth.

The character that comes to mind when I imagine the second character is "Jillian" from Erfworld ("Barbarian, proudly") - so maybe it is better to defy type and go a different direction than a big weapon swinger. Perhaps the family deals in rare magical rituals and artifacts but has never been adept at using them, making them a favorite of the Sorcerer-King (or Queen, I suppose), but our protagonist has a shred of magical ability or is adept at "tricking" items into working. This warlock might make poor decisions, frustrated with the family's wealth and power, and rashly strode out on their own.

I'm playing the pronoun game (I was closeted for years, I ROCK at this game) because I sadly am seeing this character as a female. But perhaps she dresses as a man, presents herself as a man, out of disguise from agents of her family, sense of protection against those that see women as inferior or a target, and just perhaps she's a bit of a "tomboy" (again, hates frivolity).

This character could also be a druid and the family looks down on primal magic.

Some random thoughts.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 9:49 AM
I'm playing the pronoun game (I was closeted for years, I ROCK at this game) because I sadly am seeing this character as a female.

I don't think it's that weird, dude. We have a good group. I don't think anyone's going to have a problem with it.

Jaaboo
2010-07-16, 9:51 AM
Also, Arch posted about the Loyalist group, I'm down for that too, so I'm mutable to what we want. An "evil" group might be interesting.

Archangel3d
2010-07-16, 10:40 AM
Your rebellious noble could possibly fit into that group, though being against displays of wealth might cause a problem in those circles as well. However, if you want to ramp the vindictiveness against her family up to 11, you could be working with the Templars with the goal of stripping your family of all their lands, influence and titles.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 10:44 AM
So there's still a ton of questions about Dark Sun that we'll have to wait and see about... but what about the Goblin game? Any hints on what we'll be doing? Do we all have characters?

Jaaboo
2010-07-16, 11:00 AM
So there's still a ton of questions about Dark Sun that we'll have to wait and see about...

Yeah, this. But that's a good thought as well, Arch. The concept is pretty malleable.

Archangel3d
2010-07-16, 11:32 AM
Good point. I haven't heard back from everyone about the Goblin game. Could you guys post your final characters with their Aspects? We'll see how many people we have. I won't be suggesting any more tweaks to the Aspects, just pick 'em and we'll see if they actually can give everyone a better sense of how your character would act.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 11:39 AM
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Gruglow the Crusher, level 1
Bugbear, Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: Brawler Style

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 12, Dex 15, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 12, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.

AC: 19 Fort: 18 Reflex: 13 Will: 12
HP: 27 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +6, Intimidate +7, Athletics +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana -1, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History -1, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion -1, Stealth +4, Streetwise, Thievery +2

FEATS
Level 1: Brawler Guard

POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Grappling Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Threatening Rush
Fighter encounter 1: Bash and Pinion
Fighter daily 1: Seize and Stab

ITEMS
Scale Armor, Longsword, Adventurer's Kit, Spiked gauntlet
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Plug Ugly - Gruglow is a looming, ugly battlescarred killer. He's scary and does not make friends easily.

Superstitious - Gruglow's primitive superstitions compel him to react in ways that generate luck--both bad and good.

Stubborn Ass - Gruglow grew up getting his way, due to his size. He does not like being told what to do.

Meat Train - Gruglow leaps heedlessly into confrontation. He often throws the first punch and doesn't tend to stop there.

Possessive - When Gruglow says "MINE," he means it. He is extremely possessive, whether it involves equipment or allies. He protects what's his.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-16, 12:09 PM
Thirsty

Invoke (player): You'll drink anything. Anything. And you rarely suffer the effects for it, be it cockroach juice, lizard milk, absinthe or paint.
Compel (GM): You tend to drink way more than is necessary or even safe.


Paranoid

Invoke (player): You can see through falsehoods and lies and plots that others miss. You cover all the angles.
Compel (GM): You have major trust issues, and tend to over analyze situations, looking for the plot against you.


In a Different World

Invoke (player): You consistently mutter to yourself and do your own thing. You are sometimes unfazed by things that should affect you due to your irreverence for reality.

Compel (GM):You have very different beliefs about very common things. Something well known may be completely foreign in concept to you. You often think something could be highly dangerous or completely innocuous when it isn't.



"Oh, Oops"

Invoke (player): You react suddenly and abrumptly to situations. You are very instinctive and more destructive when emotional.

Compel (GM):You often make the wrong decisions, and become timid and remorseful after grave errors.



Third Eye

Invoke (player): You have a physical third eye on your forehead. It may see auras or other light spectrums as well as cause you to spot something you may miss. It occasionally sees fragments from the Different World you partially inhabit.

Compel (GM): Your eye has the disconcerting habit of showing you disconcerting flashes of colors and cause you to hallucinate things that aren't happening.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Glug, level 1
Goblin, Sorcerer
Build: Chaos Sorcerer
Spell Source: Wild Magic

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16.


AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 15 Will: 16
HP: 24 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Diplomacy +9, Insight +6, Bluff +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +1, Heal +1, History, Intimidate +4, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion, Stealth +6, Streetwise +4, Thievery +6, Athletics -1

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility

POWERS
Sorcerer at-will 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer at-will 1: Blazing Starfall
Sorcerer encounter 1: Bedeviling Burst
Sorcerer daily 1: Grounding Rebuke

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Jaaboo
2010-07-16, 12:19 PM
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Quagyut the Quickstepper, level 1
Goblin, Monk
Build: Centered Breath Monk
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 18 Fort: 13 Reflex: 16 Will: 14
HP: 25 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +8, Stealth +11, Perception +8, Acrobatics +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +1, Heal +3, History, Intimidate, Nature +3, Religion, Streetwise, Thievery +6, Athletics

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk at-will 1: Dragon's Tail
Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey
Monk daily 1: Whirling Mantis Step

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Adventurer's Kit, Spear
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

So to bring it all together;

- Fear of Humans: Your fear of humans causes you to put a lot of effort into avoiding them and escaping them. But you most definitely don't want to do anything that would make you come into contact with them.

- Jumpy: You're easily surprised, but you tend to react very, very quickly. That reaction might not always be appropriate, however.

- Show-Off: If you're going to do something, do it with style, with flair. You're better than everyone else, and you can prove it. However, your famous last words may one day be "Watch what I can do"

- Easy Come, Easy Go: You care not for material possession or accumulation. However, this presents a problem as your carefree attitude towards possession leaves you threadbare and easily bullied.

- Like a Rolling Stone: Your impatience and zeal makes you quick on your feet. It's very rare that things can impede you for long, and you find your way to get over/under/through most barriers and roadblocks. Getting places is not a problem, standing still and waiting, now that's a problem.

IamFrums
2010-07-16, 3:49 PM
Trap Springer
Animal Testing.
Curiosity Killed the Cat.
Have I Got a Deal For You
Bulging Satchels of Tools

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Grint, level 1
Goblin, Artificer
Build: Battlesmith Artificer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 13 Reflex: 15 Will: 11
HP: 26 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, History +9, Perception +5, Dungeoneering +5, Thievery +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Bluff, Diplomacy, Endurance +2, Heal, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Streetwise, Athletics

FEATS
Artificer: Master Mixer
Level 1: Master Crafter

POWERS
Artificer at-will 1: Unbalancing Force
Artificer at-will 1: Thundering Armor
Healing Infusion: Healing Infusion: Resistive Formula
Artificer encounter 1: Shielding Cube
Artificer daily 1: Life-Tapping Darts

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Leather Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Hand Crossbow, Wand Implement, Backpack (empty), Candle, Crowbar, Thieves' Tools, Oil (1 pint) (5), Bedroll, Pitons (10), Hammer, Hempen Rope (50 ft.), Flint and Steel, Grappling Hook
RITUALS
Brew Potion, Disenchant Magic Item, Enchant Magic Item, Make Whole
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

IamFrums
2010-07-16, 3:51 PM
Hey Sven, do you know a macro code way I can add random text to an attack?

Sven Stryker
2010-07-16, 3:55 PM
define "random" you mean like alternating?

IamFrums
2010-07-16, 3:57 PM
Kind of like an attack.

1-6

1 - Say A
2 - Say B
etc.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-16, 4:04 PM
Basically, you use something like
[h:randomizer=1d5][(randomizer==1)stuff1;(randomizer==2)stuff2;etc]

I can't check the exact Syntax because Java is crabby as fuck at the moment and I can't load up Maptool while I'm doing some other stuff. It's basically written similarly to how checking for Crits is done.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-16, 5:51 PM
Are we going to be using a framework? Or moving up to a new version of MapTool? I'm gonna go ahead and make my token now.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-16, 6:07 PM
Here's the correct syntax for the effective, but highly inelegant option I suggested earlier:

[h:Randomizer=1d5][If (Randomizer==1):"Stuff1"][If (Randomizer==2):"sTuff2"][If (Randomizer==3):"stUff3"][If (Randomizer==4):"stuFf4"][If (Randomizer==5):"stufF5"]

Here is the Elegant version you should actually use:

[SWITCH(1d5):case 1: "stuff1";case 2: "stuff2";case 3: "stuff3";case 4: "stuff4";case 5: "stuff5"]

Rampage
2010-07-16, 8:27 PM
If I can make a few suggestion for token build, Magic the Gathering has a bunch of great goblin art. For example;

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=180473
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=157923
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=25491
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87971

I'll go with the character I posted earlier, but here it is again, with a couple of extra purchases.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Shinkicker, Goblin Hooligan, level 1
Goblin, Barbarian
Build: Whirling Barbarian
Feral Might: Whirling Slayer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 16 Reflex: 15 Will: 10
HP: 26 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +4, Perception +5, Athletics +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Heal, History, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Religion, Stealth +4, Streetwise, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Two-Weapon Fighting

POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Barbarian at-will 1: Whirling Rend
Barbarian encounter 1: Whirling Frenzy
Barbarian daily 1: Swift Panther Rage

ITEMS
Hide Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Handaxe (4), Crowbar, Grappling Hook
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Finalized Aspects

Fun Sized "I can fit through that easy, just watch!"

Short Fuse "Small enough to kick your ass!"

"I've Fought Bigger." "The bigger they are, the easier it is to go for the hamstrings"

Doesn't Know How to Spell Suddle "So here's the plan. I'm going to run up, hit 'em in the knees till they fall down, then hit 'em in the face till they stop moving."

Hooligan "We're gonna have some fun now!"

Rampage
2010-07-16, 8:36 PM
Also, requesting that the title be changed to Archangel3d's online 4th Ed game - 'Ere we go 'Ere we go 'Ere we go.....

IamFrums
2010-07-16, 8:57 PM
Grint tokens

Sven Stryker
2010-07-16, 9:10 PM
Aw crap. Token image. I am utterly failing at GISing a goblin with a 3rd eye in his forehead.

Jaaboo
2010-07-16, 10:16 PM
I was looking at that same one, Frums.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-17, 12:36 AM
Couple of tokens I've used and liked. Don't have the original files, though...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2n7mwaw.png
http://i25.tinypic.com/1zewgnb.png

I'll find a suitable Bugbear one later...

Archangel3d
2010-07-17, 9:48 AM
I'm going to have to strongly urge Grint the Goblin Artificer to use this token:

IamFrums
2010-07-17, 9:48 AM
That is awesome, Jaboo you can have my tokens

Sven Stryker
2010-07-17, 9:50 AM
I saw that one Arch made when I was hunting for mine yesterday. I approve.

I still haven't found a good third eye goblin. What were those links you used for image searching Arch? GISing has basically come up blank for me.

IamFrums
2010-07-17, 9:59 AM
I have photoshop if you find a goblin you like and you want me to add a third eye to him.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-17, 11:11 AM
When I try to save a 64x64 token, it just craps out on me... how're you guys doing yours?

Archangel3d
2010-07-17, 11:13 AM
I dunno, seems to work fine for me. Did you grab the latest TokenTool?

Also: Angry Bugbear

Archangel3d
2010-07-17, 11:15 AM
And a suggested token for Sven's sorcerer

Lemonheaded
2010-07-17, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I've got the newest version... I can save a 128x128 fine, then I go to make a smaller one and the detail is all gone and when it saves, it won't open.

This is the portrait I was planning to use:

http://i28.tinypic.com/2e6bq6h.jpg

Archangel3d
2010-07-17, 11:21 AM
Good find!

Here you go

Lemonheaded
2010-07-17, 11:23 AM
Thanks!

Sven Stryker
2010-07-17, 1:41 PM
Chaos, ne?

<table border="0" width=100%><tr bgcolor="Green"><td><span style="color:white"><b>Chaos Bolt</b> (Standard; at-will)<b> • Ranged 10</b><tr><td>
<b>Attack: [AttackRoll=1d20] [H,if(AttackRoll >= 20):crit=1;crit=0][if (crit==1):"<font color=red>CRIT!</font>"] + [AttackBonus = Chabonus+(Floor(Level/2))+mod] = [AttackRoll + AttackBonus]</b> vs Will<br>
<b>Hit: [if (crit==1): damage=10;Damage=1d10] + [DamageBonus=Chabonus+DexBonus] = [Damage+DamageBonus]</b> psychic damage[h:EvenOdd=(((AttackRoll/2)-floor(AttackRoll/2)))][if(EvenOdd==0):" and make a Secondary Attack"].<br>
Chaos Burst: [if(EvenOdd==0):"Glug gains a +1 bonus to AC until the start of his next turn.";"Glug rolls a saving throw. "]<br>
[SWITCH(AttackRoll):case 1:"Unfettered Power: You must push every creature within 5 squares of Glug 1 square.";case 20:"Unfettered Power: Glug may slide the target 1 square and knock it prone.";default:""]

Archangel3d
2010-07-18, 12:08 PM
(posting from wife's computer)

Computer dead again. No game tomorrow, or apparently ever again. Everything sucks. Grargh.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-18, 12:15 PM
ffffffffffffffffffffff
:cry:

RGCrab
2010-07-18, 2:05 PM
If you use that method for chaos magic, I would recommend using something more along the lines of a rider macro you execute at the end of every attack which gets passed the attackroll and looks like


[H: chaosroll = macro.args]
[IF(chaosroll == 20), CODE: {
<font color=red><b>Unfettered Power Effect:</b> You rolled a natural 20. You slide the target 1 square and knock it prone after all other effects of the power resolve.<br></font>
};{}]
[IF(chaosroll == 1), CODE: {
<font color=red><b>Unfettered Power Failure:</b> You rolled a natural 1. You push all creatures in a close burst 5 one square.<br></font>
};{}]
[H: factor = chaosroll - floor(chaosroll / 2 ) * 2]
<b>Chaos Burst Effect:</b></b>
[IF(factor==0),
CODE: {You rolled an even number on your first attack roll. You gain a +1 bonus to AC until the beginning of your next turn.};
{You rolled an odd number on your first attack roll. You may make a saving throw.}]
That divorces it from the attack itself. If you want to get really fancy, in the actual attack have it build a json object with the first iteration of the attack roll and 0/1 entries for nat 20 and nat 1, so if you have multiple attack rolls from an AoE you can have it display both Unfettered Power effects if you magically crit and fumble in the same power. At that point, your rider macro would look more like
[IF(json.get(macro.args, "chaosCrit")), CODE: {
<font color=red><b>Unfettered Power Effect:</b> You rolled a natural 20. You slide the target 1 square and knock it prone after all other effects of the power resolve.<br></font>
};{}]
[IF(json.get(macro.args, "chaosFumble")), CODE: {
<font color=red><b>Unfettered Power Failure:</b> You rolled a natural 1. You push all creatures in a close burst 5 one square.<br></font>
};{}]
[H: factor = json.get(macro.args, "chaosRoll") - floor( json.get(macro.args, "chaosRoll") / 2 ) * 2]
<b>Chaos Burst Effect:</b></b>
[IF(factor==0),
CODE: {You rolled an even number on your first attack roll. You gain a +1 bonus to AC until the beginning of your next turn.};
{You rolled an odd number on your first attack roll. You may make a saving throw.}]

Sven Stryker
2010-07-18, 2:18 PM
I didn't divorce it because I was already checking Even/Odd in the power for determining if there were secondary Chaos Bolts anyway. Yours is quite nice though for allowing it to link into other powers.

I'm curious why you used two If statements instead of a Switch though.

Looks like I may not get to use it anyway if Arch's computer problems don't get solved.

RGCrab
2010-07-18, 2:38 PM
I use two if statements because for AoE powers you have multiple attack rolls, which means sometimes you'll activate both the nat 20 and the nat 1 effect. Mine is laid out assuming each attack roll gets checked as it occurs and marks chaosCrit or chaosFumble true(1), with a starting value of false(0), and that chaosRoll is just a stored value in iteration 1 of the attack roll list, probably with a count.roll call used to do the multiple attack rolls.

Pretty much, mine was made as general as possible since it was meant to be a rider you attach to powers instead of something you write on a per power basis, and is derivative of what I wrote for my changes to the Veggie framework.

IamFrums
2010-07-18, 5:08 PM
Here is the Macro I was working on. I need to add the crit info and maybe change the way the damage is rolled. I'm not sure if I like it all blue and spelled out like that.

<table border="0">
<tr bgcolor="green">
<table width="100%">
<tr>
<td style="padding:0px 5px;">
<span style="color:white"><b>Hot Potato</b></font>
</td>
<td style="padding:0px 5px;" align=right>
<span style="color:white"></font>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<tr>
<td>
Grint throws a small electric ball to an ally giving them +1 AC until the end of my next turn<br>
<b>Secondary attack:</b> One creature in Burst 10 to the holder of the "Hot Potato" recieves an electric shock<br>
([1d20+4]) attack Vs. Fortitude and does ([1d8+4]) damage!
</td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="gray">
<td>
<!-- [Cry1 = "Customer Complaint: I was in the bathtub!"]
[Cry2 = "Customer Complaint: My mother in law was out of range"]
[Cry3 = "Reason for recall: Tendency to overload and shock others nearby"]
[Cry4 = "User comments: This thing doesn’t taste like a potato"]
[Cry5 = "User comments: Doesn’t potato have an ‘e’ at the end?"]
[Num = 1d5]
[VariableName = "Cry" + Num]
[WarCry = eval(VariableName)]
-->
"{WarCry}"
</table>

Lemonheaded
2010-07-18, 5:12 PM
Looks like I may not get to use it anyway if Arch's computer problems don't get solved.

As much as the Dark Sun game is sounding fun (and it really is), I'd totally want to play at least two or three sessions with these goblins even if his computer didn't get fixed till next month. Because I really want to strangle some human adventurers.

Rampage
2010-07-18, 7:51 PM
As much as the Dark Sun game is sounding fun (and it really is), I'd totally want to play at least two or three sessions with these goblins even if his computer didn't get fixed till next month. Because I really want to strangle some human adventurers.

This.

Cael
2010-07-18, 10:42 PM
Oh wow, not having a computer for a week means I missed a lot X_X

Archangel3d
2010-07-19, 9:31 AM
The new Dark Sun article is up! Read it here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20100719)

Also keep this as a link: Dark Sun 4e homepage (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/darksun.aspx)

Important bit: The 10 Character Themes. Though these each give a free level 1 Encounter power, I would ask that you pick them based on their flavor and how they relate to your character's story, rather than the synergies between that power and your chosen class.



Athasian Minstrel - Entertainers, spies, and assassins
Dune Trader - Agent of the merchant houses
Elemental Priest - Worshiper of the primal elements
Gladiator - Warrior forged in the arena
Noble Adept - Noble schooled in the use of psionic power
Primal Guardian - Protector of the vestiges of nature
Templar - Agents of the Sorcerer Kings
Veiled Alliance - Secret practitioners of magic
Wasteland Nomad - Raider or scout of the desert
Wilder - Heroes gifted with psionic talent

Sven Stryker
2010-07-19, 9:46 AM
You linked to this thread. :doh:

Archangel3d
2010-07-19, 9:50 AM
Wierd. Fixed (anyway it was available on the page in the second link)

Sven Stryker
2010-07-19, 9:51 AM
Welp, no DDI for me for another 2 months anyway.

Archangel3d
2010-07-19, 10:08 AM
Half-Giant Thug Paragon Path

“Oh, did I get in your way? This alley is too narrow for
my bulk. I guess you’ll have to go through me to get where
you’re headed.”

Urban Skills (11th level): You gain a +2 racial
bonus to Intimidate checks and Streetwise checks.

Half-Giant’s Retaliation (11th level): When
an enemy hits you while you have resistance to that
attack because of your stone’s endurance racial power,
that enemy grants combat advantage to you until the
end of your next turn.

Gigantic Action (11th level): When you spend
an action point to take an extra action, you can either
increase your melee reach by 1 for any attack you
make with the extra action, or you can regain the use
of stone’s endurance.

Towering Presence - Half-Giant Thug Attack 11
You slam a foe to the ground and stand astride it, preventing
the enemy from rising until it has dealt with you.
Encounter - Weapon
Standard Action - Melee 1
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity modifier
damage, and you knock the target prone. Until the end
of the target’s next turn, it cannot stand up until either it
attacks you or you are not adjacent to it.

IamFrums
2010-07-19, 11:09 AM
So are we off or on for tonight?

Archangel3d
2010-07-19, 11:40 AM
Totally 100% off, sadly.

I may, however, send you guys "in-character" PMs for your Goblins, if I have a chance.

Archangel3d
2010-07-23, 1:08 PM
Reminder A: We will be having a game this coming Monday!

Reminder B: If you have a question from the Goblin Matriarch in your inbox, please answer it (if you don't there will be another coming as soon as I get other people's answers).

Lemonheaded
2010-07-23, 1:12 PM
Gruglow eats the Goblin Matriarch. Campaign is escaping from angry tribe of goblins.

Archangel3d
2010-07-23, 1:22 PM
Honestly, I'm rather glad for the answers so far. It's given me a good sense of each character's personality. Everyone has done a great job with it all around. :)

Jaaboo
2010-07-23, 1:33 PM
Reminder A: We will be having a game this coming Monday!

Wooot!

Sven Stryker
2010-07-25, 12:14 PM
Hey Frums, what day do you leave on? Do you know yet? (I dunno how much accuracy the military gives you ahead of time)

IamFrums
2010-07-25, 2:50 PM
Hey Frums, what day do you leave on? Do you know yet? (I dunno how much accuracy the military gives you ahead of time)

Somewhere around Aug. 30 for a month of training and then I leave some time in October for overseas.

Sven Stryker
2010-07-25, 9:15 PM
Same Gobbo time?
Same Gobbo channel?

Archangel3d
2010-07-25, 10:18 PM
I don't know anymore. I've had such a busy, draining weekend, I haven't had a chance to actually set anything up.

We can get together to set up characters and start the story, but I'm afraid the production values have been severely curtailed. Ugh

Sleeeep.

Archangel3d
2010-07-26, 9:54 AM
Also, if you guys would rather hold off for next week, I'm more than willing to oblige.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-26, 11:39 AM
It's totally up to you, man. Either you feel prepared or you don't.

Archangel3d
2010-07-26, 1:18 PM
I'll be honest, I really don't feel prepared, but I also hate to disappoint (especially since you guys possibly changed/organized your schedules to accommodate the game).

Urgh

The air conditioning is busted at work, in a room with 50+ computers (with dual screen setups and supermegaOverheating DevKits). It is warm, and I am grumpy/annoyed, which is adversely affecting my enthusiasm. /firstworldproblems

Jaaboo
2010-07-26, 1:25 PM
I'm fine with postponing a week if you're not up for it. I'm not disappointed.

Lemonheaded
2010-07-26, 1:51 PM
Yeah, I mean, I'd like to play, but I'd also like to sleep... heh.

I blame this:
http://i26.tinypic.com/28vx0xw.jpg

Archangel3d
2010-07-26, 1:59 PM
Aw. Cute puppy. I feel better now (well, that and the whole team went for Dairy Queen Blizzards, which helps a little)

But still, I'm afraid that our hiatus will continue. Really sorry guys :(

Archangel3d
2010-08-01, 2:51 PM
F my computer, F Windows 7, F everything.

No game. Ever. Screw it. RRRRGGGHGGsgkfnldn;sohdkj;

Sven Stryker
2010-08-01, 2:52 PM
You're kidding. :(

Archangel3d
2010-08-01, 3:08 PM
Crisis averted. Sorry for the false alarm. (Weird driver issue made it look like I lost Photoshop)

Sven Stryker
2010-08-01, 3:09 PM
Seppuk.... oh, nevermind. :ermm:

Jaaboo
2010-08-01, 6:24 PM
Whooooo. So we're on?

Archangel3d
2010-08-01, 9:37 PM
I hope so.

Though I fully expect something else to go wrong.

IamFrums
2010-08-02, 9:21 AM
Well I`ll keep my fingers crossed and hope we have a game tonight.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 9:25 AM
So far there have been no problems. However, when I left the house this morning there were workers replacing one of the electric line poles across the street. Thus I fully expect to come home to find a T-Rex infestation in my basement. And no electricity.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 9:34 AM
Goddamn T-Rexes.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 10:10 AM
Also, I'm going to be out of town the following Mondays, the 16th and 23rd.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 10:11 AM
Also, I'm going to be out of town the following Mondays, the 16th and 23rd.
Welp

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 10:27 AM
Vacations are a bitch. Wait, no. :smug:

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 10:29 AM
On the Bright side, I intend to be combing through my new Dark Sun book that Tuesday morning(and Psionic Power if I browse it while at the bookstore).

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 10:33 AM
Yeah that's the down side, no Dark Sun book until I get back.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 10:34 AM
On another note, I'm working on a lot of different stuff that I intend to "roll out" when the Darksun campaign starts. This includes running at 60pixels per square, up from 30. That may not seem like much, but it allows me to put in a lot more detail into the maps/sets pieces. I'm looking at more "painted" terrain, stuff done in photoshop as a whole and used as a Map, rather than textures painted directly on the Background layer. It'll look a lot nicer, but we'll have to check whether it negatively affects the performance/loading time.

I'm re-designing a lot of macros, making them more generic and easier to re-use. At the same time, I'm trying to put together templates for abilities (single attack, AoE, etc) for both players and monsters, to make things easier to understand at a glance. Also, there's a lot of encounter design work that I'm very excited about, and I'm looking forward to unveiling it.

The only thing which I find is a bit of a shame is that my enthusiasm for the Goblin game is a bit overshadowed; I wouldn't want to "spoil" the new stuff by unveiling/running it during a temporary game, especially since it isn't all ready yet. So the Goblin game will be a bit of a "alpha" test of a few other design ideas; a more free-form encounter design with multiple objectives and solutions, coupled with the Aspects.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 10:36 AM
Arch you shame my poor attempts at map making for my game. :(

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 10:48 AM
On another note, I'm working on a lot of different stuff that I intend to "roll out" when the Darksun campaign starts. This includes running at 60pixels per square, up from 30. That may not seem like much, but it allows me to put in a lot more detail into the maps/sets pieces. I'm looking at more "painted" terrain, stuff done in photoshop as a whole and used as a Map, rather than textures painted directly on the Background layer. It'll look a lot nicer, but we'll have to check whether it negatively affects the performance/loading time.

I'm re-designing a lot of macros, making them more generic and easier to re-use. At the same time, I'm trying to put together templates for abilities (single attack, AoE, etc) for both players and monsters, to make things easier to understand at a glance. Also, there's a lot of encounter design work that I'm very excited about, and I'm looking forward to unveiling it.

The only thing which I find is a bit of a shame is that my enthusiasm for the Goblin game is a bit overshadowed; I wouldn't want to "spoil" the new stuff by unveiling/running it during a temporary game, especially since it isn't all ready yet. So the Goblin game will be a bit of a "alpha" test of a few other design ideas; a more free-form encounter design with multiple objectives and solutions, coupled with the Aspects.
It's cool. It seems we're only going to get 2 Gobbo games with a full team in anyway. (this week and next, Jaaboo's out the next 2, and Frums leaves for training right after that)

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 10:52 AM
Man, making the maps is more for personal enjoyment than anything else. And I feel absolute jealousy at what Gabe from Penny Arcade pulls off; it just pushes me to make more elaborate maps and such.

There are so many things I wish we could do in Map Tools:
- Animated gifs, with triggers (omg I would have so much fun with this)
- Object-based LoS Blocking, that you can save to the object and move with it (for things like doors)
- An "Overlay" layer, above the Token layer, with a global transparency slider, to be able to have levels above and below, or flight, or to have effects like a canopy cover, weather, etc.
- Triggered sound effects
- Background looping environmental sounds (rain, wind, birds)

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 12:57 PM
Also, as a side note, please start thinking about what Background you think might be interesting, without considering the mechanical/power aspects of the choice in relation to a specific class, but rather what kind of character/personality you would play with that background.


Athasian minstrel (Entertainer, advisor, or assassin)
Dune trader (Agent of the merchant houses)
Elemental priest (Worshiper of the primal elements)
Gladiator (Warrior forged in the arena)
Noble adept (Privileged and tutored in the Way)
Primal guardian (Protector of oases and forests)
Templar (Agent of a sorcerer-king)
Veiled Alliance (Secret practitioner of magic)
Wasteland nomad (Raider or scout of the desert)
Wilder (Hero gifted with psionic talent)

I'm not asking for anything carved in stone, just a general inkling of what kind of game you guys would like to play (political intrigue, wasteland survival, somewhere in between)

Lemonheaded
2010-08-02, 1:42 PM
Probably either Templar/Athasian Minstrel or Wasteland Nomad/Primal Guardian. From what little I know so far. It's really gonna be tough for me until I see the book.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 1:47 PM
Well that concept I thought of earlier would likely be a Dune trader (or perhaps a secret Templar agent working against their own family). A Wasteland nomad or Primal guardian would be a fun character too if we're primarily out in the sticks just scratching out a living.

Two comments though;
* I know perhaps the least about Dark Sun so honestly my vote should only count like for a half vote or something. I'm good to go with however we want to roll.

* A question, what is "the Way" as referenced in the Noble adept description?

Lemonheaded
2010-08-02, 1:52 PM
I probably know as much as you about Dark Sun, Jaaboo.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 1:54 PM
If I go the Thri-Kreen or Half-Orc route, probably Gladiator. (because that's what the build is based on anyway)

If I go the Metal obsessed Arcane guy, pretty much anything but Gladiator and Primal Guardian. And really, that's because I need to read the book to see how metal is treated by factions, and figure out what path he would take to get metal. (steal, trade, claim, etc)

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 1:55 PM
By the way Sven, I LOVE the concept of the fighter guy, using his bindings as a weapon is awesome.

IamFrums
2010-08-02, 1:56 PM
I`ll need to duck out of the game a little early tonight, probably about 10 or 1030ish. Looks like I`m going to have to do my PT Test at 6 am tomorrow

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 1:57 PM
I probably know as much as you about Dark Sun, Jaaboo.

Well, uh, then, you only get a 1/2 vote too! :D

I keed.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 2:06 PM
Well that concept I thought of earlier would likely be a Dune trader (or perhaps a secret Templar agent working against their own family). A Wasteland nomad or Primal guardian would be a fun character too if we're primarily out in the sticks just scratching out a living.

Two comments though;
* I know perhaps the least about Dark Sun so honestly my vote should only count like for a half vote or something. I'm good to go with however we want to roll.

* A question, what is "the Way" as referenced in the Noble adept description?

A secret Templar working to ensure the downfall of one of the Trade Houses or noble families is an awesome concept, and would make a good character for a novel/tv series. LOTS of story potential there. That's what I like to see in a character: a well-defined motivation.

It doesn't matter how much you know about Dark Sun, a good story is a good story.

"The Way" is what they call Psionics in the disciplined schools of the mind. Since everyone has a certain amount of psychic energy, Nobles send their children to these (often brutal) Psionic schools learn to control it from a young age. It's the equivalent of Nobles sending their children for Fencing lessons.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 2:12 PM
If I go the Thri-Kreen or Half-Orc route, probably Gladiator. (because that's what the build is based on anyway) Hssss! :angry:

If I go the Metal obsessed Arcane guy, pretty much anything but Gladiator and Primal Guardian. And really, that's because I need to read the book to see how metal is treated by factions, and figure out what path he would take to get metal. (steal, trade, claim, etc)

They probably won't go into any detail you couldn't extrapolate already. I must say I prefer this concept, because it has a clear goal in mind. Of course, the methods would indeed rely on the Background, but the short term motivation is there. Chances are a Dune Trader would be the best bet, though being a Templar would certainly give you a different reasoning for the motivation as well (equipping your Master's army and workforce with metal will help the city-state prosper tremendously).

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 2:15 PM
Except instead of eating tea & crumpets, the kids are brutalized and trained in ways that would make Gunnery Sgt. Hartman blush? I can dig it.

Anyway, yeah I love the secret Templar concept. That is pretty cool, if a bit evil? Not sure how the Templars roll, they sound pretty nasty. However, I suppose if they're doing what they think is right from a prospective of order in a chaotic world, then good & evil sorta take a back seat. Which I guess is not a big deal if its not working against the party.

Alright there's my half-vote. :D Still not sure on class/build/race (well race sounds Human, I imagine most nobles are?) - I was thinking of fighter but goddamn if Sven's concept is so cool I want him to play that.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 2:16 PM
Hssss! :angry:

Hahahaha!

Still not sure on class/build/race

:ermm:

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 2:23 PM
Hssss! :angry:
Oh weh weh.

I want to play a defender, and I love Thri-Kreen. I was originally thinking a half-orc brawler would be perfect for an Arena fighter, but a Thri-Kreen works just as well. It's a core part of the character concept. Also, I have a new plan in the works to add motivation to this character. Quit yer' bitchin'. :D

The second concept has just as much of a "build" as the first one, anyway.

Lemonheaded
2010-08-02, 2:44 PM
So basically I have a "bad" guy and a "good" guy.

The bad guy being an psionic interrogater working for one of the Sorceror-Kings... he's basically a spy/inquisitor. He could be doing counter-espionage, he could be tasked to work on prisoners of the Sorceror-King, he could be out more openly searching for wild mages or other enemies of the Sorceror-King. He could even be charged with investigating the party without their knowledge, depending on the rest of the group's roles. I dunno yet. But he would probably be a Templar, Noble Adept, or Athasian Minstrel.

My other concept is a hermit/scrounger on the search for lost oases. Particularly grand, much-fantasized about ones... The Lost World/Shangri-La type of stuff. He believes Athas isn't entirely dead and that there's a conspiracy working toward keeping hidden tropical paradises (or perhaps, more likely, one enormous rainforest) secret. He could align himself with a group if that was going to help him in his quest, but he doesn't really have any allegiences. So he would most likely be an Elemental Priest, Primal Guardian, or Wasteland Nomad.

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 2:49 PM
there's a conspiracy working toward keeping hidden tropical paradises (or perhaps, more likely, one enormous rainforest) secret

:v:

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 2:53 PM
Anyway, yeah I love the secret Templar concept. That is pretty cool, if a bit evil? Not sure how the Templars roll, they sound pretty nasty. However, I suppose if they're doing what they think is right from a prospective of order in a chaotic world, then good & evil sorta take a back seat. Which I guess is not a big deal if its not working against the party.

You hit the nail on the head there: To maintain order and law (and keep their boss in charge), the Templars have to "weed the garden" occasionally, hunting down agents of enemy Sorcerer Kings and dangerous anarchists/terrorists. Good and Evil varies greatly from Templar to Templar; some are fairly decent people who want nothing more than prosperity for their city, while others are wholly corrupted by their power, influence and wealth. Most run the gamut between those two extremes; they do the job, because they believe that the alternatives (dying of starvation, riots, being under the heel of an enemy sorcerer-king) is worse than the status-quo.

Alright there's my half-vote. :D Still not sure on class/build/race (well race sounds Human, I imagine most nobles are?)Mostly human, yes. However, if you're infiltrating a Merchant House rather than a noble family (think Dune, where Merchant Houses are made up of many families, one step below Nobles on the socioeconomic scale), then you could be another race, since there is at least one major Trade family from each race. Heck there are more Elven Merchant Houses than there are human ones because of their nomadic lifestyle, and they usually deal with a lot of shady contraband and shoddy merchandise (because next week they're gone).

As for class, Rogue or Bard would tie in to the stealth/subterfuge aspect. Warlord would provide a good diplomatic basis. Then there are the Psionic classes to consider as well.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 3:16 PM
Has anyone heard from Rampage? He hasn't responded to the PM, and hasn't said anything in the thread in a week or more.

Rampage, you out there?

Jaaboo
2010-08-02, 3:19 PM
I'm curious to see what they're doing with Bards, they're supposed to be Arcane so are they defilers too?

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 3:27 PM
Rampage responded on Skype, should be around tonight.

Also, everyone should be Early since Frums has to leave early. (if possible, as I know several of you come straight from work stuffs)

Lemonheaded
2010-08-02, 5:14 PM
So when are we starting? 7, 7:30?

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 6:05 PM
Just got home, need to eat. We'll start at 7:30 EST.

Thunder and lightning outside. Might lose internet/electricity

End transmission

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 6:20 PM
Sven. Can you see me online on Skype?

Either my list of contacts is stored locally (and thus was wiped) or I'm on the wrong account and can't remember the right one.

[Edit] Holy crap that was loud. Storm is right overhead.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-02, 6:23 PM
I cannot, and I just called you.

Archangel3d
2010-08-02, 6:35 PM
Dammit. Try looking up Archangel3d?

IamFrums
2010-08-03, 7:12 AM
Had a great time last night, sorry I had to cut it short.

On the good side I passed my PT test. Maxed out the sit ups and ran the mile and a half in under 13:00

Archangel3d
2010-08-03, 8:22 AM
Nice, very impressive.

Jaaboo
2010-08-03, 9:56 AM
Yeah sorry I was jumping on the cut as well. I was sorta hoping that my wife wouldn't mind picking up dinner but yeah, well.

Jaaboo
2010-08-04, 9:52 AM
Damn Frums, good shit.

Also reading more through the threads Sven linked in the D&D thread, Althasian minstrel looks pretty pimp too, especially for someone who is already into the espionage game. That is getting me leaning towards a Rogue though Warlord might be kinda cool too, if we need a Leader role (and frankly, I like playing Leaders so I'm not going to complain.) Bard is going to be right out because I want to play that Bard in the other campaign.

Archangel3d
2010-08-04, 10:44 AM
I think that Athasian Minstrel is actually the most difficult to name/concept, because it encompasses very different functions/jobs/backgrounds:
- Entertainer
- Historian/Scribe
- Artist
- Diplomat
- Spy
- Tribal Storyteller
- Concubine
- Rabble Rouser/Revolutionary

Basically, it's a very charisma/social background with a lot of variability.

Jaaboo
2010-08-04, 11:22 AM
Yeah that's what's so appealing about it for someone who is double dealing. Many of those jobs/functions/what have you fit quite well together. Consider the rebellious Templar-noble we've been kicking around. She is a Spy, quite literally, for a Sorcerer-King, and a Revolutionary against her own house. However, a good cover is required for a spy, Diplomat or Entertainer fit the bill quite nicely. (I guess so does Concubine, but, moving on...) Or maybe he's a student of history first who knows the path his family's mechanizations lead to, and is forced to ally himself with the Templars to maintain order, save lives, etc.

Archangel3d
2010-08-04, 12:13 PM
In which case, yeah, Charisma Rogue or Warlord would both be good classes to compliment that background, depending on the character's methodology (sneaking/misdirection/covert or charm/bribe/blackmail).

As a Scribe/Accountant, you would be aware of where the money is going, who it's going to, and so forth.

Jaaboo
2010-08-04, 12:33 PM
As a Scribe/Accountant, you would be aware of where the money is going, who it's going to, and so forth.

Great, I'm playing my wife. :whistling

Edit: Ya know, if my wife found something shady whilst auditing and picked up a sword to do something about it. Which, actually, would be hilarious.

Archangel3d
2010-08-04, 1:19 PM
Great, I'm playing my wife. :whistling

Edit: Ya know, if my wife found something shady whilst auditing and picked up a sword to do something about it. Which, actually, would be hilarious.

Actually, in the case of your character it would probably be "found something shady, contacted the government, undermined the operation, then picked up a sword and joined the SWAT team raiding the main office" mwhahahaha

Lemonheaded
2010-08-04, 1:57 PM
Okay, I know that one of my concepts is very espionage-y, but I'm starting to wonder if it's a little more Eberron than Dark Sun. I believe it can fit in (I don't think anybody's background will be a problem), but I'm starting to think that, regardless of their backgrounds and origins, I'd prefer a wastelands expedition sort of plot over city-state intrigue. I mean, I definitely wouldn't mind some of the latter, but I think a plot about exploration, villages, bandits, ancient ruins and scouring the wastes would be more enjoyable as the main focus of the campaign...

Archangel3d
2010-08-04, 2:09 PM
Oh I agree that I want you guys to experience the desert. Even with your current concept, there are many reasons for you to brave the elements between civilization. With an intimidating reputation, a Templar would strike fear in the hearts of desert raiders, rebels and primal cultists living out in the wilderness.

Personally I think your character idea is a very good one, needing only a goal/motivation, and even then, merely being a Templar would be motivation enough ("serve the Sorcerer-King, serve your superiors, serve the city")

Cael
2010-08-06, 8:47 PM
Hey guys, Long time no see.

I have internets again! Until tuesday or wednesday anyway...

I'm a bit out of the loop on the plan for the next couple weeks, but I thought I'd share the concept I've been leaning towards for the Dark Sun campaign. I'd like to play a character that was a member of a city-state regime but was betrayed and exiled to the wastelands as the course of normal politics played out. His experiences as a hermit have embittered him to the people that placed him in this position and he's now out for revenge.

I feel like this could either make him a good or bad character depending on how I play him. He could be out to change the structure of the city states, or just out to punish the people that hurt him and regain his position.

I'm not sure what race/class the character would be, but I was thinking about the warden class. Any other suggestions? I have no idea what race he'd be.

Archangel3d
2010-08-08, 10:07 AM
I'd like to play a character that was a member of a city-state regime but was betrayed and exiled to the wastelands as the course of normal politics played out. His experiences as a hermit have embittered him to the people that placed him in this position and he's now out for revenge.

I feel like this could either make him a good or bad character depending on how I play him. He could be out to change the structure of the city states, or just out to punish the people that hurt him and regain his position.A very good start, with a number of interesting possibilities. It looks like the party will at least be nominally connected to a city-state, with at least one Templar (possibly). So you could also be a former member of that city, and working with them to restore yourself within the hierarchy. Or you could be a former member of an enemy city-state, and have joined this city-state in an effort to undermine those who betrayed you.

You have a number of possibilities as far as personality/behavior that would go well with this motivation; bitter, cynical and distrustful; proud, dignified and eager to prove himself; vindictive, vengeful and cruel; etc.

Definitely a character with potential, no matter what class you chose.

I'm not sure what race/class the character would be, but I was thinking about the warden class. Any other suggestions? I have no idea what race he'd be.One thing to consider: Primal magic is expressly forbidden within the city-states, punishable by death. Taking a class that has overt Primal magic effects is dangerous if you intend to deal in major cities, unless your character is very subtle with his usage. Then again, Arcane magics are only slightly less at a disadvantage; you can have a permit for Arcane magic within city walls.

Not dissuading from Warden, just warning that the primal spirits of Athas are like the forces of the Abyss in other worlds; a furious, malevolent force that ultimately wants to wipe civilization off the map.

As for race, it really depends your former job within the city-state. Humans are obviously everywhere. Muls, Dwarves and Half-Giants can rise quite high as arena overseer, slave master, master of construction or legion commander within the city's army (for example). Elves and Tieflings tend to have more "soft" roles as artists, scribes, accountants, administrators, etc. Almost all races can have a place as viziers, councilors or representatives within the court of the city-state (to represent the citizens of that race, in an effort to keep them in line).

Rampage
2010-08-08, 12:14 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a desert wanderer who's been out in the sun to long, maybe on purpose. Someone searching for the ultimate clarity of the wastes.

Archangel3d
2010-08-08, 5:26 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a desert wanderer who's been out in the sun to long, maybe on purpose. Someone searching for the ultimate clarity of the wastes.

Hrm. A few questions then:

Motivation: Specifically, what is pushing him to join the party and follow along with them.
Personality: Are there mannerism, likes or dislikes that would affect the way he acts and reacts.
Long-Term Goal: Something that he can work towards in steps (something somewhat measurable).
Short-Term Goals: An example or two of steps that he can take to achieve his longterm goals.

To me, this guys sounds like an Elemental Priest. As such, if I may suggest the following (remember these are just suggestions, I defer the character to you, obviously)


Elemental Priest of the Sun:
The blazing sun grants visions to those that are strong enough to endure it, and the weak fry in its almighty gaze. The other elements have grown too bold, and have forgotten who the true master is. They form cults, drawing weaklings to themselves, who hide from the Sun. But the almighty Sun burns the air, boils water, and bakes the earth, and its wayward child of fire exists because of the one true Flame above.

The Sorcerer Kings, for all their blasphemous disrespect, are at the very least committed to the eradication of these weakling cults. Their resources and followers prove useful, and they are more than willing to do the dirty work when a cult is uncovered. They do not threaten the Sun, which reigns over all the city-states. They will serve, and they may continue to play at being gods.

Suggested Race/Class/Build: Mul Infernal (Solar) Warlock - Elemental Priest

Rampage
2010-08-08, 7:21 PM
hmmmmmmm

Question. Would you allow a Gith (Githzerai from PHB 3)? And I like the elemental priest idea.

The gith are a race of grotesque humanoids that appear to be a peculiar mixture of elf and reptile. They are extremely gaunt and lanky, with long gangling arms and spindly legs. Their hands have three fingers with no opposable thumb, yet they are able to use tools and wield weapons. Both their fingers and toes end in sharp claws. If one could get a gith to stand up straight, he would measure close to seven feet tall. However, most gith appear to be no more than five feet tall, for they stand hunched over at the shoulders.

I'm still working on mannerisms and motivations, trying to do research on a setting that's been out of print for years is a bit tricky.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-08, 7:25 PM
Question. Would you allow a Gith (Githzerai from PHB 3)? I think Gith are supposed to be mutants or something in Dark Sun. Not 100% sure though.

Archangel3d
2010-08-08, 7:44 PM
Yeah, the Gith of Dark Sun aren't related to the Githzerai. I think there's a bit of confusion in the names which they never really fixed. Honestly, I always imagined they would be an Eladrin re-skin, since they too could teleport over short distances. If you want to be an Eladrin stat-wise, but call yourself a Gith, I'd be quite happy with that.

In other news, I have been trying my damnedest to come up with something for the Goblin game, and I'm coming up blank. I fear that it really isn't inspiring me at all. I kinda feel like I should get a head start on making the Dark Sun game as awesome as possible, but I really don't want to leave you guys hanging this Monday either.

I suppose we could collectively try out the Crab-Frameworks, create characters, etc. I'm still not sure whether I'd like to use it or not (there are some things I like, like the Statuses and the ability to create and equip weapons, but it seems a little slow, oth in usage and in the delay between input and effect.)

We could also spitball character ideas for Darksun, maybe get an idea who wants to try what role, and what kind of balance you guys would like between survival, combat, politics and heroics.

Any preferences? Or should I get back to work on the Goblins?

Rampage
2010-08-08, 7:54 PM
I think we should all give the framework a spin. I've been tinkering with it, and have been getting errors I can't place.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-08, 8:16 PM
I think we should all give the framework a spin. I've been tinkering with it, and have been getting errors I can't place.
This and speed are my main problems with frameworks. I'm pretty sure I have Crab's figured out, but I hate hunting down other people's errors if I can't quickly read the code. I still can't say I'm a fan of frameworks in general.

RGCrab
2010-08-08, 8:17 PM
Oh man, errors. I love errors. If you can reproduce them, post a bug report in the framework thread and I'll take a look at what is going on.

On another note, I'm usually free on Monday nights, so I'll be easy to contact by AIM or Skype if you have immediate framework questions and such if you choose to test out the system. The more people trying to break it, the more robust and faster I can make it hopefully.

Cael
2010-08-08, 8:40 PM
It looks like the party will at least be nominally connected to a city-state, with at least one Templar (possibly). So you could also be a former member of that city, and working with them to restore yourself within the hierarchy. Or you could be a former member of an enemy city-state, and have joined this city-state in an effort to undermine those who betrayed you.

I think this is the most open aspect of what I have in my head. I think he could either be working from the outside or inside depending on the party's composition. I think you and I will need to discuss which way to play it based off of what you know about the rest of the party.


You have a number of possibilities as far as personality/behavior that would go well with this motivation; bitter, cynical and distrustful; proud, dignified and eager to prove himself; vindictive, vengeful and cruel; etc.


The character is vengeful, but he's also cool and calculating about how he will achieve his goals. I figure that the world is fairly cutthroat and many of the beings living there will do unsavory things to raise their position in life and my character suffered from the negative fallout. He was outcast because of the actions of another character and now he wants to get back what he lost, even if he has to step on a few toes and lives to do it.


One thing to consider: Primal magic is expressly forbidden within the city-states, punishable by death. Taking a class that has overt Primal magic effects is dangerous if you intend to deal in major cities, unless your character is very subtle with his usage. Then again, Arcane magics are only slightly less at a disadvantage; you can have a permit for Arcane magic within city walls.

Not dissuading from Warden, just warning that the primal spirits of Athas are like the forces of the Abyss in other worlds; a furious, malevolent force that ultimately wants to wipe civilization off the map.

As for race, it really depends your former job within the city-state. Humans are obviously everywhere. Muls, Dwarves and Half-Giants can rise quite high as arena overseer, slave master, master of construction or legion commander within the city's army (for example). Elves and Tieflings tend to have more "soft" roles as artists, scribes, accountants, administrators, etc. Almost all races can have a place as viziers, councilors or representatives within the court of the city-state (to represent the citizens of that race, in an effort to keep them in line).

Here's how I see my character; He was on the wrong end of younger person's political climb and was forced out of the city as a result of these machinations. He had no real survival skills of his own because of his role as a bureaucrat and thus almost died out in the wastes, but was saved by something out there. It was that something that taught him his new skill-set (and thus sets his class) and now he is working to take the position earned through his forced sacrifice and reclaim his life. He'd also be open to the life he always wanted.

I picked Warden because I thought it would be the most logical thing to find out in the wastes, primal forces are out to destroy the city-states, and it would be significantly different from Cael's stuff in Thrones of Dust. I didn't realize that a primal power would be seen as bad in the city-states, but it makes sense. I would be interested in having to be very careful about who sees the power, and I think it would be within my character's personality to sacrifice any potential squealers that see the abilities, but I'm open to alternate suggestions for class/power source.

I see the character as having a slick, calm, and calculating personality that covers over his vengeful nature. He's basically the Count of Monte Cristo of Dark Sun. And I can see some of the Gankutsuou anime aspect mixed into the character. The powers, not aesthetic or setting...

Archangel3d
2010-08-08, 9:47 PM
Cael, I really dig the whole "hidden power" aspect of it, both in ability and in personality, it fits very well with his cold and calculating demeanor. His enemy's time will come. Oh yes. They will pay, one day. And before they do they will see everything they hold dear crumble around them.

Heck, this works really well with Jaaboo's "take down the Merchant House/Noble Family"; you could be working towards the same ultimate goal, you as a disgraced retainer/associate of the House seeking revenge, him as a member of the family sabotaging the corrupt power structure from the inside. What would be interesting about that scenario is that while you would both be working towards the same goal, you would be doing so for very different reasons; Jaab's character is doing this because of the disgusting, amoral and traitorous behavior of the House, and you could care less. Meanwhile you're doing this because you lost your status, your wealth and your reputation, while Jaab is literally giving all that up of their own free will.

Damn, those two would make a good novel I swear. Really digging it. Totally psyched.

Jaaboo
2010-08-08, 10:37 PM
Damn, those two would make a good novel I swear. Really digging it. Totally psyched.

Goddamn. Yeah, that is really good stuff. Consider me on board for this.

What I like, what comes to mind, is the juxtaposition of the roles of the Count of Monte Cristo. My character still wears the trappings of nobility and has the connections and wherewithal to make things happen, but its Cael's character who has lost everything and is seething vengeance. What really intrigues me is who is the leader in this crusade and who is the soldier? I feel as if both characters are perhaps using each other, each thinking that they are the mastermind of this House's doom. And that is very, very slick.

As for class/race, I've more of less settled on human for race, and I'm wavering between rogue or warlord, leaning towards a rogue. Charisma is likely to play a large part in my character's role mechanically and thematically. I almost see this character now as the Count to Cael's Dantes, the urbane, cold, and yet charming and hypnotic nobleman. Where Cael's is the self-forged survivor hellbent on revenge.

Rampage
2010-08-08, 10:57 PM
Also digging this. Just trying to figure out a way to fit in there.

Okay, so my character is a walker of the wastes. But there's something inside the city that he wants. Was looking at this earlier.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dufe/20100628

My character is an Elemental Priest of the Sun. He roams the wastes looking for locations like that, because he believes that they lead to greater power. While out in the desert, he encounters Cael's character. Trade Houses/Noble families keep track of locations like that to avoid them. Maybe Cael's character acts as his in to finding more Sunwarped areas, and Cael's spurned noble needs an ace in the hole if it comes to a confrontation.

Comments?

Sven Stryker
2010-08-08, 10:59 PM
afk, giving up on RP forever.

Rampage
2010-08-08, 11:11 PM
Also, I just realized that I linked to subscriber content, not sure if everyone has Insider or not so...

Although the reality-warping effect of a sunwarped flat defies any kind of thorough and rational explanation, there is a tangible and measureable effect on magic within a sunwarped flat. From time to time, small zones of sunwarped magic will manifest. Usually these are no larger than a human in size. The Veiled
Alliance claims they are echoes of the defiling magic that laid the foundation for the sunwarped flat in the first place. Skilled arcanists, masters of primal magic, and even experienced masters of psionic power can sometimes absorb this unpredictable magic and use it to fuel their attacks in a way similar to how defilers use life energy to power their spells. You can use the sunwarped magic zone terrain power to represent this potential, placing a few squares of sunwarped magic across the battlefield to add a twist to encounters in a sunwarped flat.

Sunwarped Magic Zone Single-Use Terrain
A swirling mist of ambient sunwarped magic hovers nearby, almost calling out for you to draw upon its unpredictable power.
Minor Action
Requirement: You must be standing in a square filled with ambient sunwarped magic.
Check: Arcana check (moderate DC) to absorb the sunwarped magic.
Success: You draw upon the sunwarped magic to power your next spell.
Failure: You take necrotic damage equal to your healing surge value.
Effect: The next arcane, primal, or psionic attack power you use before the end of your next turn is infused with sunwarped magic. The power mutates when you use it; when this happens, roll 1d6 and consult the table below. The power deals 1d10 extra damage (per tier) of that type.
1 – Acid
2 – Cold
3 – Fire
4 – Force
5 – Lightning
6 – Thunder

Cael
2010-08-09, 12:54 AM
Count me in on this plan of DESTRUCTION!!!

I think that Jaboo's character would act as the initial in for my character. I mean I was disgraced, outcast, and now there's someone that looks like me haunting the fringes of the city? That would be worth checking out just in case it is someone you could use to further your own plans. Perhaps marathon viewings of Heroes has influenced me, but I feel like this relationship would be like Mr. Bennett and the Haitian. Mr. Bennett puts on a good face and does a fair amount of dirty work while the Haitian comes in and takes care of the rest. My character would definitely be depending on Jaboo's for help because I'd have no ground of my own to stand on at first and Jaboo could easily take away what little he gives me.

Rampage: Your character could potentially be the one that helps guide mine in his initial days out in the wastes. At first you just want to know what I know, so you keep me alive, but then I'm inspired by the primal power source and we make a pact. You help me learn and control my new ability. I help you find Sunwarped zones and perhaps Jaboo and I find a way to give you access to the city.

What does everybody else do?

Archangel3d
2010-08-09, 8:29 AM
I think having Rampage's character be a mentor for Cael's newfound Primal power is a good idea, and helps tie the group together even more.

Rampage: The Sunwarped zones would perhaps be an interesting short-term goal, but I do feel that there's a lot more potential in there for a more long-term goal. I mean, you want to find Sunwarped fields... for what purpose? Becoming a Sunwarped wretch yourself? Becoming their leader? Eradicating them? Perhaps your character wants to learn the secret of Sun Magic, said to be the most deadly and powerful magic of the Green Age. My other suggestion is to have one or more rival elemental cults who want to use/abuse the Sunwarped energy. (For those who can't read the whole article, Sunwarped zones are intense Radiant fallout areas, which rapidly mutates, twists or just kills people if they stay there. It's an unhealthy place to be. Like "bombarded with massive amounts of radiation" unhealthy)

As for Mofo/Lemon, he would definitely be more associated with Jaab's character, being a government Interrogator/Investigator/Inquisitor. (If Lemon agrees), he could basically be the government official assigned to the case file, investigating Jaab's family and gathering evidence of their treason against the Sorcerer King. And lo and behold he finds Jaab's character, a perfect informant/operative.

I'm liking this, because it's falling into place that each character's motivation/goals are linked to at least two other characters. Very slick.

[Edit]Sven, any new thoughts on what we discussed vis-a-vis your own character. If we go with the rough outline we last talked about, it would be really cool (and fairly easy) to tie him in with both Lemon's Inquisitor and Rampage's Sun Priest.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-09, 9:08 AM
Currently leaning more towards Melchior than the slave gladiator. (the one you liked first) Seems like he'd be harder to tie in though since he has a more focused goal that isn't sociopolitical. Iunno, gimme a day/week/hour.

Archangel3d
2010-08-09, 9:25 AM
It's cool, take your time.

Also: They posted images from the Dark Sun Monster Manual on the Wizard's website

Cael
2010-08-09, 10:42 AM
Is that a Sarlaac and Space Slug lovechild in the right-hand image?

Gross

Rampage
2010-08-09, 11:44 AM
I think having Rampage's character be a mentor for Cael's newfound Primal power is a good idea, and helps tie the group together even more.

Rampage: The Sunwarped zones would perhaps be an interesting short-term goal, but I do feel that there's a lot more potential in there for a more long-term goal. I mean, you want to find Sunwarped fields... for what purpose? Becoming a Sunwarped wretch yourself? Becoming their leader? Eradicating them? Perhaps your character wants to learn the secret of Sun Magic, said to be the most deadly and powerful magic of the Green Age. My other suggestion is to have one or more rival elemental cults who want to use/abuse the Sunwarped energy. (For those who can't read the whole article, Sunwarped zones are intense Radiant fallout areas, which rapidly mutates, twists or just kills people if they stay there. It's an unhealthy place to be. Like "bombarded with massive amounts of radiation" unhealthy)



I was kinda thinking my character used to be normal, but was changed to his current (gith like) form by a Sunwarped area. While most sunwarped wretches lose their minds, he managed to keep (most of) his. Maybe rather then another cult, maybe it's his own cult that's looking for him.

Count me in on this plan of DESTRUCTION!!!

Rampage: Your character could potentially be the one that helps guide mine in his initial days out in the wastes. At first you just want to know what I know, so you keep me alive, but then I'm inspired by the primal power source and we make a pact. You help me learn and control my new ability. I help you find Sunwarped zones and perhaps Jaboo and I find a way to give you access to the city.

I like it.

Jaaboo
2010-08-09, 11:45 AM
Mr. Bennett and the Haitian.

Liking it more and more. I do a good HRG impression too.

"Well, that's less than ideal."

Archangel3d
2010-08-09, 12:20 PM
I was kinda thinking my character used to be normal, but was changed to his current (gith like) form by a Sunwarped area. While most sunwarped wretches lose their minds, he managed to keep (most of) his. Maybe rather then another cult, maybe it's his own cult that's looking for him.

Very interesting. So would his cult have gone over to the Sunwarped and become Wretches, or would he have gone into the Sunwarped field against the cult's wishes?

Basically, if you want to provide some background about the cult, you can feel free. I'd use them either way, but if you want a say in who they are, what they do, etc.

Obviously, you'd probably have to use the whole hood + veil + longcloak look in certain civilized circles; the Gith, Drey and other twisted humanoids from the wastes tend to be... well "scum" would be a step up socially speaking.

Rampage
2010-08-09, 12:32 PM
Very interesting. So would his cult have gone over to the Sunwarped and become Wretches, or would he have gone into the Sunwarped field against the cult's wishes?

Basically, if you want to provide some background about the cult, you can feel free. I'd use them either way, but if you want a say in who they are, what they do, etc.

Obviously, you'd probably have to use the whole hood + veil + longcloak look in certain civilized circles; the Gith, Drey and other twisted humanoids from the wastes tend to be... well "scum" would be a step up socially speaking.

Probably he would have gone into the field against their wishes, and now he's somewhat addicted to the effect of Sunwarped magic, and they want to put him down because of it. And the whole "hooded figure" aspect is kind of cool. Plus, there is a reason Warlocks have Bluff for a class skill.

Archangel3d
2010-08-09, 12:41 PM
Aaaahhh, Sunwarp addict. There's a good motivation. Lots of openings there.

Jaaboo
2010-08-09, 2:21 PM
As for tonight, I wouldn't mind doing more idea-crafting for Dark Sun. I'd like to see where people are headed in terms of roles/classes now that it seems most of our ideas are starting to gel.

Cael
2010-08-09, 2:45 PM
Liking it more and more. I do a good HRG impression too.

"Well, that's less than ideal."

I suppose my character act a bit more like Syler than the Haitian as far as temperament and actions.

"This is usually the part where people start screaming"

"Rehabilitation doesn't happen overnight. I am trying"

I don't plan to be a psychopath like Sylar, but I think his general attitude towards others may be the same.

Rampage
2010-08-09, 3:06 PM
Am I the only one who's getting the feeling that the entire party is just a bunch of ticking time bombs waiting to go off? I love it.

Archangel3d
2010-08-09, 3:25 PM
Well, it really depends on the personality. From what I got, Sven's Gladiator is a pretty solid, dependable and dedicated guy (bug?). And Jaab's character at least has a code of morals, which some would claim was idealism, but doesn't seem all that unstable.

None the less, I really like the fact that they all have faults and troubles. It makes them much more three-dimensional.

Jaaboo
2010-08-09, 3:33 PM
Yeah I don't see my character as a time bomb at all. Might be... morally gray, however.

I am keeping a half-eye open on Lazylording.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-09, 3:41 PM
If I play the gladiator(bug or HOrc/mutant), he'd probably be more dependable. If I play Melchior, he'll probably be the opposite. Melchior wouldn't flip out about people though, because people are irrelevant.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 10:43 AM
So we’ve prettymuch come to the conclusion that the Framework is a bit too convoluted and “thick” with stuff for us to be able to use with the responsiveness we’ve grown used to. As such, we’re looking at building a simplified and light-weight framework from the ground up, focusing on ease of use and quickness of response.

[Aside: RGCrab, I’m assuming you occasionally read this thread. If so, your input and advice would be immensely valuable and appreciated. Cael and Sven are currently looking into things, but you certainly have a lot of experience and knowledge in this, and any assistance you feel you can spare would be awesome.]

The main aspects we would need to tackle for the Framework:

The application and handling of Status Effects
Switching between weapons without messing with individual powers
Display of power summary when mousing-over power macros
Tracking Encounters, Dailys and Action Points that have been used, and having a way to refresh them
A Healing System; Healing Surges, Healing Received and Temp Hitpoints


Status Effects:

Pressing this Macro would open a pop up window with other buttons for the various status effects; pressing them would toggle the status on or off on all creatures currently selected. I’m not a big fan of the little checkboxes; I’d prefer to have actual (potentially color coded) buttons to press and apply (or remove) that status effect. Also, this would add text to the selected creature’s “status” property (or remove it), so that you can see the effects affecting them when you mouse over the creature.

The four categories of Statuses would be Buffs, Debuffs [End of Turn], Debuffs [Save Ends], and Ongoing Damage. I would be making the icons for these, but we can use generic ones until that time.

I like the fact that when the Framework applies a Status Effect on someone, it placed it on the bottom row, and moved the previous ones over to the left. We’ll have to see whether this is part of the Framework or something that can be applied generally to the Status icons themselves.

Marking, Cursing and Quarrying:
It would be nice to give the players the ability to add and remove their most common Status as a power. For example, a Warlock would have a Curse Macro, which would allow him to select a token, hit the Macro, and apply the Curse status to it, along with a text saying “[Warlock] has Cursed [Target]”. However, the macro would have to check if the target was already Cursed, to allow him to remove the curse from one and put it on another.

In that example, if the target is not Cursed, the target gains the Cursed status, and the text says “[Warlock] has Cursed [Target]”.
If the target was already Cursed, the Cursed status would be removed, and the text would say “[Target] is no longer Cursed”. Same would go for Quarry and Marks.

More to come!

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 10:52 AM
Cael's looking into actually building one. I'm far too lazy.

Btw, if you want any "apply state to target" (on a macro that's on a PC and not the target) you're pretty much going to be forced to use json targeting stuff, which always seems slow IMO.

Cael
2010-08-10, 11:16 AM
Json is pretty fast if you're only passing one or two variables. Longer strings and lists will bog down the system. I'm still parsing through RGCrab's framework to understand how the pieces work, but I suspect I may have a 'rough draft' ready by the time we start dark sun.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 11:23 AM
I was talking about targeting specifically, not jsons in general.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 11:46 AM
Actually, for the targeted stuff; can't you have your "Impersonated" macros window up? That way you can select whatever you want and still use your own character's macros.

Obviously the DM would have to use a Macro from the "Global Macro" window to apply States to all selected tokens.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 11:50 AM
Actually, for the targeted stuff; can't you have your "Impersonated" macros window up? That way you can select whatever you want and still use your own character's macros.

Obviously the DM would have to use a Macro from the "Global Macro" window to apply States to all selected tokens.
We can't impersonate monsters without seeing their stuff, yo. (last I checked, anyway)

Not to mention, if you group select the monster+the PC, to put a State on the monster, you're also going to put the state on the PC since that's where the macro is. If you want to put a state on something that isn't using the macro, you have to use Targeting, which is slow.

Edit: I'ma go test it, just to be sure. Can uncheck Restricted Player Impersonation, but I'm not sure what all that allows the players to do that they otherwise wouldn't. I think it would give them too much access. We'll find out.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 11:54 AM
Really? So you can't have a PC impersonated, select a monster, and use a Macro in the Impersonated Macros window to put a status effect on the selected monster?

Dang.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 12:00 PM
Really? So you can't have a PC impersonated, select a monster, and use a Macro in the Impersonated Macros window to put a status effect on the selected monster?

Dang.

Gonna try that basically. Gimme a minute, laptop didn't have b70 yet.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 12:03 PM
Cool man. Make sure you're set as a player and not a GM, or we might have the same problem as we do with the Add to Initiative macro.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 12:05 PM
Yeah, my Desktop is GM, and laptop is PC. Using 2 different passwords for each, as always so I don't mix them up.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 12:09 PM
Awesome.

Writing up the Weapons design requirements in the meantime. Do you think we should have this in a different thread, for the sake of organization? Or maybe transition to a new thread for the DarkSun game proper?

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 12:20 PM
Strict token ownership: on
Restricted Player Impersonation: off

Can't see GM's macros on a token.
Player tried these action sequences:


Impersonating PC, select monster, clicking setstate (without an id) macro from impersonation window, puts state on PC.
Impersonating monster (because RPI is off), select PC, using setState (without id still) from selection window, puts state on PC.
Impersonating monster, using setState from global window or typed in chat box, puts state on monster.

Edit:


Select monster, use setState from global window/chat box, does nothing: no impersonated token. (as expected)

/edit


I'm not currently messing with setState(state,#,id) yet. (trusted stuff yay) Usually the way I use id is with a json

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 12:53 PM
Argh, so there is no "Set State on Selected"? Bugger.

I guess the framework must handle that in more complicated ways. Sadness.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 12:58 PM
Moving on:

Weapon Switching:

This is where a library might come in. Basically, having the ability to determine what weapon a player is using at a given time, which would affect the powers the player uses without having to edit those powers. It doesn’t need to be called up each and every time a player uses an attack; rather it should be a macro each player has, to change their current weapon.

The player's Attack macros would be suitably designed to call on the information/values of the selected weapon. More complex rolls, such as Brutal, would need to be handled as well. We will probably need to have a macro to create weapons per player, with players adding to their list of available weapons as time goes on.

Weapon properties that would have to be taken into account, and used or displayed as part of an attack macro:
Weapon Damage dice
Proficiency Bonus
Hit Bonus (magic weapon, feat)
Damage Bonus (magic weapon, feat)
Brutal
Extra Crit damage (High Crit, magic weapon, feat)
Increased Crit Range (magic weapon, feat)
Special (magic properties, feat)
Reach
Range
Versatile


So I’m imagining an attack Macro being (with [this] referring to stats in the character’s Properties, and {this} referring to the weapon’s Properties:

Reaping Strike – Martial, Weapon
At-Will; Standard Action
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: [CharacterStrength] + [1/2CharacterLevel] + {ProficiencyBonus} + {HitBonus} + MiscBonus vs AC
Hit: {WeaponDamage} + {WeaponDamage} + {DamageBonus} + [CharacterStrength] damage, and an ally adjacent to the target can Shift 2 squares.
Special: {WeaponSpecial}

I’m wondering if it’s possible to have a bank of weapons per player that they can add to, or would that make things run slowly?

Jaaboo
2010-08-10, 1:24 PM
So question regarding breaking weapons. What about more complex types of weapons such as crossbows? Do they not exist in this world, or are you just SOL if yours breaks out in the boonies - because its pretty hard to improvise a crossbow. :/ For that matter, what about magic weapons? If you're say, a Frostcheese character, do you also get screwed if your weapon breaks?

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 1:33 PM
Dark Sun's unofficial tagline is "You're Screwed". It does not pull punches. Though, at least for weapon breakage, it's always the player's choice to break and go for the reroll.

That said, I'm not sure if the "break on a 1" is for all weapons, Weapons+Implements, or just Melee weapons (though "I rolled a 1 on my spell, my obsidian wand shatters to launch a second shot" is kinda cool).

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 2:02 PM
Yeah, having your crossbow explode to make an bolt hit doesn't make a lot of sense.

Argh, so there is no "Set State on Selected"? Bugger.

I guess the framework must handle that in more complicated ways. Sadness.
My personal, probably inaccurate summary

setState(state,#) innately puts the state on the token that has the macro. If you're using a macro not on a token, it uses it on selected token.

If you want to have a macro on a token that sets state on a token other than itself, you have to use setState(state,#,id). The id requires trusted macros.

Basically, this: http://lmwcs.com/rptools/wiki/Current_Token

Jaaboo
2010-08-10, 2:04 PM
What is/was the old rule regarding 1s? I thought it was just, "you rolled a 1, your weapon breaks, too bad, so sad."

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 2:07 PM
The old rule was on a 1 or a 20, your weapon breaks, unless it's made of metal. That's why metal was so valuable and sought-after.

If I remember correctly, magic non-metal weapons got a Saving Throw vs Death (ah, 2nd edition saving throws) using your save score + their magic bonus to avoid getting destroyed.

It was pretty damn harsh.

RGCrab
2010-08-10, 2:28 PM
A lot of the "heaviness" in my system comes from the ludicrously complex targetArray json object.

As for the setState() functionality, it takes 2 or three arguments. Statename and status(1/0) are required. The final argument is ID, which if not included runs setState on the passing token. That is to say, if a player token passes a request to the library, and the library actually runs setState, the target of setState will be the player token. Global and campaign macros treat the selected token as the passing token.

IDs are most easily pulled from a compiled json list that is then passed into a radio, check, or list input, which is then interpreted for the IDs and performs either a count.roll interpretation of the radio or list input to insert the proper ID into setState, or a forEach interpretation of the check input.

Weapon banks like Arch wants are very easy and very fast depending on implementation. It is hard to get the weapon system much faster than I've got it running right now on the execution level, but it could easily be faster in the setup level.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 2:37 PM
Ok, I only understood half of that, but if I understand correctly:

- The targeting "json object" is the cause of a lot of lag
- You need that json to target a token with a SetState macro on a different token
- The GM can set the state of any selected Token through the Global Macros without the need of the json (because of ownership issues, it's possible that players cannot do this)

In which case, I think we can "scale down" and just have the GM have control of states through a Global Macro, rather than have the individual player macros.

RGCrab
2010-08-10, 2:44 PM
Well, the targeting json object is the cause of a lot of lag, but mine specifically is more bloated than most. The lag is at perfectly acceptable levels on single target, single execution systems.

Most targeting methods pass two variables (name, id#) for any specific token, to make sorting easier, which is the method used by the target's states button in my framework. In the actual power macro execution the target array starts with three variables, and builds more variables depending on player choices during execution, and gets referenced about 16 times per target.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-10, 2:45 PM
Ok, I only understood half of that, but if I understand correctly:

- The targeting "json object" is the cause of a lot of lag
- You need that json to target a token with a SetState macro on a different token
- The GM can set the state of any selected Token through the Global Macros without the need of the json (because of ownership issues, it's possible that players cannot do this)

In which case, I think we can "scale down" and just have the GM have control of states through a Global Macro, rather than have the individual player macros.
Sorta. Basically the "id" requires a protected macro, which effectively means route it to a library token. Aka the "targeting"

Players can set states on enemies if they impersonate them, then use a macro from their global window instead of one on a token. You must turn off Restricted Player Impersonation though at server start up.

Archangel3d
2010-08-10, 11:34 PM
For those of you with the subscription, you should totally check out the new "Templars of the Sorcerer Kings". Even if no one is taking a Sorcerer King pact Templar, it's still an awesome read, to get a feeling of what each of the major cities are like.

Also this power, granted to Warlock Templars of Hamanu (The Lion of the Desert, Bringer of Law) is really cool for its flavorful use of mechanics

Golden Lion of Urik
[Greater Pact]
Prerequisite: Warlock, Sorcerer-King Pact class feature, Yellow Cloak of Urik feat
Benefit: In addition to regaining the use of your fell might, whenever you drop an enemy you have cursed to 0 hit points, each enemy cursed by you can choose to either fall prone or become weakened until the start of your next turn.
I love the "Kneel before the might of Hamanu!" feel. :cloud9:

Lemonheaded
2010-08-11, 12:41 AM
Abalach-Re or Hamanu sound like good candidates for my potential psion inquisitor to be bound to.

Archangel3d
2010-08-11, 9:22 AM
Both interesting choices, though we'll have to see what the others think as well, since they would also be somewhat tied to that geographical and political region, as a starting area. I'm surprised you picked Abalach-Re over Androponis, though.

Raam ("ruled" by Abalach-Re) is not so much a city-state as it is a dozen baronies mashed together. The various nobles have divided the city amongst themselves, and the whole thing has be come a microcosm of inter-district politics and warfare, where contested streets, warehouses and wells are regularly fought over by roving gangs who support one Noble or another. There's not real central government, the Sorcerer Queen is reclusive and bizarre, and the Templars move in secret, using threats, blackmail and even kidnapping to try to get the noble barons back in line.

Urik (ruled by Hamanu) is a strict, disciplined city, where the Law is absolute, unwavering and unbending. The Code of Hamanu dictates every aspect of politics, culture, mercantilism, conduct, warfare and combat. The sorcerer king himself has a strong militaristic bent, is an expert tactician, and the city has a fierce pride in its army. More than other cities, corruption and treachery are actively sought out and eliminated, because they defy the Code of Hamanu. Duty, honor and loyalty to the Lion of the Desert.

Lemonheaded
2010-08-11, 9:34 AM
Yeah, it was mostly this bit:

"Duties: The templars know they cannot move openly in the city where the danger to themselves is simply too great. Instead, templars act as spies, monitoring developments and passing their intelligence up the chain of command in the hope that their reports reach Abalach-Re on a day when she has some passing concern for their content. In addition to gathering information, templars can also influence city leaders to support the sorcerer-queen by pressuring them with threats against their lives, livelihoods, and loved ones, though few templars now have the muscle to back up their warnings."

That made me think a telepathic interrogator/inquisitor would fit nicely. He would be far less martial than other templars. That's just what struck me. Still gonna wait for the book to make any decisions!

Jaaboo
2010-08-11, 11:08 AM
Raam is interesting because of the strength of the Noble families. It also leans me back towards being a Templar as well, a sleeper who hides their affiliation from family and strangers alike. Or perhaps has worked with Templars (giving me a tie in with Lash), and is familiar with the means to hide Raam's templars and knows the value of discretion.

I keep hemming and hawing on class. Cael has a great mechanic to approach his father's ghost and that whole story in Shaman, but I really do feel that Warlord is such a good fit, maybe even Warlord/Bard (or Warlord|Bard). He/she feels like a leader, someone who doesn't rely on psionic gifts or arcane knowledge, but rather the quickness of their mind and whatever physical gifts they can summon.

I dunno, more food for thought.

Cael
2010-08-11, 2:50 PM
Sven let me look at the Watcher and world guardians. I'm definitely in favor of my character being a Dwarf Shaman haunted by his ancestors after losing his position in the city state. I'd be working with the Watcher guardian unless the Dark Sun guardian looks like a better fit.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-11, 2:52 PM
Nitpick: They're spirit companions not guardians. :nerdcross:

Archangel3d
2010-08-11, 3:13 PM
Given the new Wallpaper which seems to be the new Animist Shaman talking to a dead creature (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/wallpaper/DarkSun_2_1280.jpg), I'm thinking that it might just fit better, thematically.

We'll have to see.

Archangel3d
2010-08-12, 10:11 AM
Sadly, it looks like I'll be unable to have the game this coming Monday. However, the following Monday (the 23rd) I have something pretty big planned for you all.

Jaaboo
2010-08-12, 10:23 AM
I might be around that Monday, however, I might be a bit tapped out, as that's the day I'm driving back up from California.

Rampage
2010-08-12, 12:18 PM
Sadly, it looks like I'll be unable to have the game this coming Monday. However, the following Monday (the 23rd) I have something pretty big planned for you all.

Excellent (for me anyway) on both counts. I might have a shindig up in Silverthorn this weekend, and I will probably need all day Monday to recover. Monday the 23rd looks good from here.

Lemonheaded
2010-08-12, 12:21 PM
Sadly, it looks like I'll be unable to have the game this coming Monday. However, the following Monday (the 23rd) I have something pretty big planned for you all.

Goblins, or are we done with that?

Archangel3d
2010-08-12, 12:51 PM
I think we're done with the Goblins. It was... interesting, but I just couldn't come up with anything I was happy with. I guess it wasn't my style of game.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-12, 1:01 PM
Goblins, or are we done with that?
We didn't play this Monday either. We just talked a lot. (which was useful and fun)

Cael
2010-08-12, 4:08 PM
Given the new Wallpaper which seems to be the new Animist Shaman talking to a dead creature (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/wallpaper/DarkSun_2_1280.jpg), I'm thinking that it might just fit better, thematically.

We'll have to see.
Spirit Companion or Spirit Guardian fits better?

Sadly, it looks like I'll be unable to have the game this coming Monday. However, the following Monday (the 23rd) I have something pretty big planned for you all.

Does that include me?! :v:

Archangel3d
2010-08-16, 8:45 AM
Does that include me?! :v:

Yes.

Also:

The books come out tomorrow! Purchase them! Dooo iiiiit!

Sven Stryker
2010-08-16, 8:53 AM
The books come out tomorrow! Purchase them! Dooo iiiiit!
I was thinking I'd stow away on a shipping truck from WoTC and photograph every page on the way to its destination. Then I'd blow up the truck to destroy the evidence, and then my hot chick sidekick would show up in a cool car and we'd drive off into the sunset as I grinned at the camera.

Archangel3d
2010-08-16, 9:04 AM
The main flaw with that plan is the whole blowing up the books. Other than that, go for it.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-16, 9:57 AM
The main flaw with that plan is the whole blowing up the books. Other than that, go for it.
I could take all the books out of the truck instead of photographing them?

Archangel3d
2010-08-16, 10:05 AM
Just so I can keep track of stuff (please tell me if I'm not up to date or forgot something)


Lemonheaded: Inquisitor - Human, Psion [Telepathic], Templar
Cael: Haunted Ex-Noble - Dwarf, Shaman [Watcher or Animist], Noble Adept or Wasteland Nomad
Sven: Gladiator - Mutant (Half-Orc) or Thri-Kreen, Fighter , Gladiator
[B]Jaaboo: Infiltrator - Human, Rogue [Cut Throat? Shadowy? Trickster?], Noble Adept
Rampage: Radiant Addict - Mutant (Human), Warlock or Sorcerer [see below], Elemental Priest.

Rampage, rather than a Solar (infernal) Warlock, may I suggest a Cosmic Sorcerer? It would probably give you access to more Solar powers, provide you with either an aura of flame or Radiant resistance, and it would fit more with the idea of being addicted to the power. Additionally, it opens you up to the Celestial Scholar paragon path (which would probably need to be renamed) that grants: "Blazing Sun: At the start of your turn while you are in the phase of the Sun, each enemy within 2 squares of you takes fire and radiant damage equal to your Strength modifier."

If you do choose warlock, I'm not sure how well Infernal would fit in the end, since it has more to do with the earth, stone, and fire than it does with things from the sky. If anything, the Far Realm pact would be more suitable, because of the blinding/Radiant aspects of it.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-16, 10:12 AM
Either that or Thri-Kreen with the same Class+Theme, yeah.

Rampage
2010-08-16, 11:46 AM
I was thinking about that, and it does make more sense. And I was kind of liking the article they just came out with for the melee sorcerer options....

Sven Stryker
2010-08-16, 12:52 PM
I was thinking about that, and it does make more sense. And I was kind of liking the article they just came out with for the melee sorcerer options....
Yuck.

Archangel3d
2010-08-16, 1:22 PM
Actually, I would suggest something a little more "Sunwarped Zone"-based: Basically, a Cosmic Sorcerer with a penchant for creating zones and areas of heat and flame. For example:

At-Will: Blazing Starfall: Burst 1 within 10, Radiant damage, creates a Zone that deals Fire damage to those that leave it.
At-Will: Burning Spray: Close Blast 3, Fire damage.
Encounter 1: Explosive Pyre: Ranged 10, Fire damage, deals Fire damage to enemies who start or move adjacent to the target.
Daily 1: Cosmos Call: Ranged 10, Psychic Damage, you choose either Ongoing 5 Radiant, Daze or Slow as an effect.
Utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle: Interrupt when Hit, gain +1 Defense and deal Fire damage to those that hit you.
Encounter 3: Flame Spiral: Close Burst 2, up to 3 targets, Fire damage, deals Fire damage to enemies who start or move adjacent to you.

Probably not the strongest/most tweaked build, but it does try to go along with the whole "bathe the land in flame and light". That said, it seems more Controller-ish than outright Striker-ish, and I understand if you want to try something different, considering your last character was a Controller.

Sven Stryker
2010-08-16, 1:43 PM
Blazing Starfall is actually Radiant damage, with the Fire damage just for leaving the zone. It's probably my favorite sorcerer at-will even without Cosmic.

Also, grabbing all one damage type is pretty bad unless you're a Dragon or Storm Sorcerer. The first thing that resists you fucks you up. And if they're immune, you're fucked even if you ignore resistance. It's fun thematically, but I wouldn't suggest it for a Cosmic or Wild Sorcerer. (except Shadar-Kai that force cold/necrotic)

Archangel3d
2010-08-16, 2:16 PM
Fair enough, though I always hoped that thematic would take precedence over mechanic: having a "Sun Priest" tossing around Ice Storms and Acid Orbs would be kind of disappointing, y'know what I mean?